"I was a christian", theist argument.
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13-10-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 11:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:09 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Do what? What the fuck are you talking about? Evidence is something that is proof positive for a claim that is independently verifiable, discoverable, and is demonstrably linked to the conclusions drawn from it and it must be falsifiable (which is to say that one could test its connection to the conclusion).

So the question get's asked again, are the early sources commonly used by historians to draw their conclusions regarding a historical Jesus, like the NT writings, early Christian writings, writings of non-contemporary historians, etc... do these sources constitute as evidence or not?

Quote:Going to continue to ignore the questions posed to you? Do you think only you have valid questions?

Was there a question in your previous post that I missed? Because I don't see it.

I'm also going to refer you to this post where I have answered all of these questions before, multiple times.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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13-10-2015, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 11:50 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 11:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So the question get's asked again, are the early sources commonly used by historians to draw their conclusions regarding a historical Jesus, like the NT writings, early Christian writings, writings of non-contemporary historians, etc... do these sources constitute as evidence or not?


Was there a question in your previous post that I missed? Because I don't see it.

I'm also going to refer you to this post where I have answered all of these questions before, multiple times.

I've read all your post. And if you feel the answer for the question can be extrapolated from them, then that answer is, no.

These sources in your view would not constitutes as evidence. If historians use these sources to draw conclusions on the existence of a historical Jesus, it wouldn't be evidence based conclusions.

Or is that a strawman of your position?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 11:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:41 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm also going to refer you to this post where I have answered all of these questions before, multiple times.

I've read all your post. And if you feel the answer for the question can be extrapolated from them, then that answer is, no.

These sources in your view would not constitutes as evidence. If historians use these sources to draw conclusions on the existence of a historical Jesus, it wouldn't be evidence based.

Or is that a strawman of your position?

That a person named Yeshua existed between 0-35 CE? How many times have I said that this would be a plausible hypothesis based on historical records? Because you can't possibly have read anything anyone has written to you about this particular question if you don't know my answer to it.

Dude named Yeshua existed between 0-35CE? Plausible

This is the same Yeshua who's name was mistranslated to Jesus and is the same as the fictional character in the NT? No. The NT character is a fiction with no supporting evidence akin to any other fictional character who has some aspect of their character based on some aspect of a (potentially) real person.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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13-10-2015, 11:53 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 11:56 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 11:51 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:47 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I've read all your post. And if you feel the answer for the question can be extrapolated from them, then that answer is, no.

These sources in your view would not constitutes as evidence. If historians use these sources to draw conclusions on the existence of a historical Jesus, it wouldn't be evidence based.

Or is that a strawman of your position?

That a person named Yeshua existed between 0-35 CE? How many times have I said that this would be a plausible hypothesis based on historical records? Because you can't possibly have read anything anyone has written to you about this particular question if you don't know my answer to it.

Dude named Yeshua existed between 0-35CE? Plausible

This is the same Yeshua who's name was mistranslated to Jesus and is the same as the fictional character in the NT? No. The NT character is a fiction with no supporting evidence akin to any other fictional character who has some aspect of their character based on some aspect of a (potentially) real person.

Again that is not an answer to my question, so I'll repeat it:

These sources in your view would not constitutes as evidence. If historians use these sources to draw conclusions on the existence of a historical Jesus, it wouldn't be evidence based. Or is that a strawman of your position?

Or do these sources constitute as evidence?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
A quick summary of what I have written explicitly regarding the question you claim I haven't answered in a discernible way:

Wait, I think you're serious that a guy named Yeshua existing between 0-35 CE somehow corroborates the bible as being plausible.

Did a guy named "Yeshua" exist around that time? I bet A LOT of traveling preachers named "Yeshua" lived at that time. Doesn't mean ANY of them validate ANY of the biblical claims or provide even an iota of evidence as to the validity of any given cult or god concept.

A plausible early cult leader that doesn't corroborate any claims of the validity of the bible or New Testament in any way.
Even if the NT authors based their character on a cult leader, their fiction doesn't become fact.

What part of "a guy named Yeshua existing doesn't corroborate any biblical or New Testament stories" do you not understand?

A human named Yeshua existing seems inevitable but that human connecting in any logical way to the NT writings does not. Nor would a man existing named Yeshua give any validity to any gospels in any way.

Because I make the claim that there exists no evidence of a mythical or historical Jesus and that a guy named "Yeshua" (translating to Joseph) living in the years 0-30CE don't corroborate any biblical or NT claims?

Your Jesus is (at best) the same thing. A man named "Yeshua" living between 0-30 CE is probably inevitable. That does NOT mean that any story or claim made about him DECADES LATER hold ANY FUCKING WATER.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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13-10-2015, 11:56 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 11:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:51 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That a person named Yeshua existed between 0-35 CE? How many times have I said that this would be a plausible hypothesis based on historical records? Because you can't possibly have read anything anyone has written to you about this particular question if you don't know my answer to it.

Dude named Yeshua existed between 0-35CE? Plausible

This is the same Yeshua who's name was mistranslated to Jesus and is the same as the fictional character in the NT? No. The NT character is a fiction with no supporting evidence akin to any other fictional character who has some aspect of their character based on some aspect of a (potentially) real person.

Again that is not an answer to my question, so I'll repeat it again:

These sources in your view would not constitutes as evidence. If historians use these sources to draw conclusions on the existence of a historical Jesus, it wouldn't be evidence based. Or is that a strawman of your position?

Or do these sources constitute as evidence?

It is a straw man of my position because you ignore my answers to that question. You. Are. A. Fucking. Moron. Who. Is. Wholly. Dishonest.

Ever going to answer my questions? Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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13-10-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 11:56 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Again that is not an answer to my question, so I'll repeat it again:

These sources in your view would not constitutes as evidence. If historians use these sources to draw conclusions on the existence of a historical Jesus, it wouldn't be evidence based. Or is that a strawman of your position?

Or do these sources constitute as evidence?

It is a straw man of my position because you ignore my answers to that question. You. Are. A. Fucking. Moron. Who. Is. Wholly. Dishonest.

Ever going to answer my questions? Drinking Beverage

It's a simple question. I want to know if the early sources, NT Writings, the writing on non-contempory historians, etc... used by historians to draw conclusions about the existence of Jesus, constitute as evidence or not.

Do these sources constitute as evidence in your view or not?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-10-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 12:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:56 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is a straw man of my position because you ignore my answers to that question. You. Are. A. Fucking. Moron. Who. Is. Wholly. Dishonest.

Ever going to answer my questions? Drinking Beverage

It's a simple question. I want to know if the early sources, NT Writings, the writing on non-contempory historians, etc... used by historians to draw conclusions about the existence of Jesus, constitute as evidence or not.

Do these sources constitute as evidence in your view or not?

Can you read? Blink

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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13-10-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
What do you think it proves if a person named Yeshua existed between 0-35 CE? Do you believe that validates any of the NT stories or any claims from Paul?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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13-10-2015, 12:04 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(13-10-2015 12:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 11:56 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is a straw man of my position because you ignore my answers to that question. You. Are. A. Fucking. Moron. Who. Is. Wholly. Dishonest.

Ever going to answer my questions? Drinking Beverage

It's a simple question. I want to know if the early sources, NT Writings, the writing on non-contempory historians, etc... used by historians to draw conclusions about the existence of Jesus, constitute as evidence or not.

Do these sources constitute as evidence in your view or not?

I mean, holy fuck. You have to literally ignore posts in order to keep asking the same stupid fucking question over and over while claiming I am ignoring or avoiding answering it.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid876528

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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