"I was a christian", theist argument.
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14-10-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
To quote Dawkins:

"RICHARD DAWKINS:The consequences of. It is rather like a detective coming on a murder after the scene. And you… the detective hasn’t actually seen the murder take place, of course. But what you do see is a massive clue. Now, any detective…

BILL MOYERS: Circumstantial evidence.

RICHARD DAWKINS:Circumstantial evidence, but masses of circumstantial evidence. Huge quantities of circumstantial evidence. It might as well be spelled out in words of English. Evolution is true. I mean it’s as circumstantial as that, but it’s as true as that."

http://billmoyers.com/2013/03/01/moyers-...evolution/

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-10-2015, 09:36 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 09:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  To quote Dawkins:

"RICHARD DAWKINS:The consequences of. It is rather like a detective coming on a murder after the scene. And you… the detective hasn’t actually seen the murder take place, of course. But what you do see is a massive clue. Now, any detective…

BILL MOYERS: Circumstantial evidence.

RICHARD DAWKINS:Circumstantial evidence, but masses of circumstantial evidence. Huge quantities of circumstantial evidence. It might as well be spelled out in words of English. Evolution is true. I mean it’s as circumstantial as that, but it’s as true as that."

http://billmoyers.com/2013/03/01/moyers-...evolution/

Quote mining. How quaint Drinking Beverage

Evolution is not based on circumstantial evidence

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14-10-2015, 09:41 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
If you think evolution is based on circumstantial evidence (because you or someone else you have read has quote mined people), start here:
http://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Analy...n+textbook

For fossils, start here:
http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Geology...al+geology

Then go here:
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-What-Fos...y+prothero

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14-10-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 09:20 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "From my limited exposure out on the internet and from reading lots of interesting links by interesting people here on the forums I do not think this is quite true."

It isn't true at all that the only evidence of evolution is circumstantial. That is a complete straw man.

Genetics, Observational studies of speciation in modern (extant) species, the fossil record, etc.

Blush Sorry, I was meaning Tomasia's tone of 'questioning' evolution. As in that Tomasia's comment wasn't quite true.....
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14-10-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
Or if you want a text for an introduction into evolution by Dawkins (since I presume you must love reading his work since you've quote mined him), go here:
http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Eart...w+on+earth

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14-10-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 09:43 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 09:20 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "From my limited exposure out on the internet and from reading lots of interesting links by interesting people here on the forums I do not think this is quite true."

It isn't true at all that the only evidence of evolution is circumstantial. That is a complete straw man.

Genetics, Observational studies of speciation in modern (extant) species, the fossil record, etc.

Blush Sorry, I was meaning Tomasia's tone of 'questioning' evolution. As in that Tomasia's comment wasn't quite true.....

I got that, I was just strengthening your wording. Thumbsup

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14-10-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
Blush
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14-10-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
Ok, so somehow discussion about proof of jesus lead to... evolution...? I fail to see the connection, but oh well

@Tomasia: No, evidence for evolution is anything but circumstantial. You know, this is why one of the criterion for "evidence" is that it has to be testable and in turn falsifiable. Evolution would have remained a hypothesis if not for the observable evidences like fossil records.

In case of history, a evidence would still need to adhere to this by providing something observable. Therefore historical facts too are generally supported by archaeological evidence of said events.

In your case however, you don't even have much circumstantial evidence. For anybody to consider a circumstantial evidence, it has to come from an unbiased source, and the source needs to also be validated. The opinions of historians didn't come from unbiased sources nor do we have any way to validate those sources. When it comes to validating said claims through archaeological means, again no proof has been found by any unbiased community till date.

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14-10-2015, 10:16 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 08:56 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  [quote]From my limited exposure out on the internet and from reading lots of interesting links by interesting people here on the forums I do not think this is quite true.

In the case of evolution there are multitudes of bolstering information etc which go into strengthening/explaining/etc the theory.


Evidence is relational to it’s explanation. And the strength of any explanation is it’s explanatory capacity, and it’s ability to rule out competing explanations. Darwin didn’t have to wait until he acquired detailed knowledge of genetics or the abundance of additional information later gleamed by us to acknowledge the explanatory range of his explanation.

Evidence is only a piece of a larger picture. If you can’t formulate a competing picture here, that offers a greater or equal explanatory range, anything you have to say about the evidence being used to formulate a conclusion is meaningless.

If in fact the evidence of historicity is weak, then we should be able to formulate non-historical explanations, that offer an equal degree of explanatory range. But this is not the case at all, even those here who argue about the weakness of evidence, can’t even offer a viable alternative explanations. You can say whatever you want about any individual piece of data, but it’s the question of the totality of all these little pieces that matter, and how best to account for them. The best accounting we have is a historicity, and unless you can provide a more compelling non-historical account, than you won’t be able to unseat this.

The half-baked argument being composed by folks like Chas, and TBD, no body makes them, not even those who write books in support of a non-historicity make them. They at least take the same sources and try and formulate an alternative explanation. But for CHAS, and TBD their thoughts are not even complete here, they’re just scatterbrained.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-10-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.

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-Rick
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