"I was a christian", theist argument.
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14-10-2015, 04:55 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 03:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 03:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  We have actual evidence for religions being invented, e.g. Mormonism, Islam, cargo cults*, Heaven's Gate, et al.

Christianity is no different.


*Was John Frum an actual person?

Was Marshall Herff Applewhite, Joseph Smith, Mohammed actual people? Was Guatma Buddha an actual person?

Do we have accounts of folks meeting John Frum's brother? Historians writing of his death and execution by local authorities at the time? Do we have a variety of parables and sayings attributed to John Frum? Do we have sketches of his life and history?

No one wrote of Jesus' death at the time. It is all decades later.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-10-2015, 04:57 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 04:06 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 03:49 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I mean exactly what I said. What does it contribute to Paul's character (Jesus) that a person named Yeshua existed a generation before him (Paul) and a person that he never met (nor anyone who ever wrote about Yeshua/Jesus ever met)?

Uhh, I’m gonna need a clearer translation. I don’t know what you mean by “Paul’s character (Jesus). The only point that I even mentioned Paul, was that he wrote of his encounter with Jesus brother, and disciples, and nothing about Paul’s view of Jesus.

So I’m not sure why you’re introducing this the way you do, as if I’m suppose to know what it is you’re talking about?

Quote:And you flat out ignored (red herring) the latter question. What does Yeshua-dude's probable existence contribute the Christian myth at large that Paul created?

Uhm, this Yeshua-dude’s life, death, and message are the foundations of the Christian Religion. If that’s not an answer to question, than i don’t know what your question is.

Christianity is largely derived from Paul's writings. Jesus wrote nothing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-10-2015, 05:05 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 04:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  Christianity is largely derived from Paul's writings. Jesus wrote nothing.

Another valuable lesson brought to you by Jesus. Never put anything in writing.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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14-10-2015, 06:13 PM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 03:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 03:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  We have actual evidence for religions being invented, e.g. Mormonism, Islam, cargo cults*, Heaven's Gate, et al.

Christianity is no different.


*Was John Frum an actual person?

Was Marshall Herff Applewhite, Joseph Smith, Mohammed actual people? Was Guatma Buddha an actual person?

Do we have accounts of folks meeting John Frum's brother? Historians writing of his death and execution by local authorities at the time? Do we have a variety of parables and sayings attributed to John Frum? Do we have sketches of his life and history?

There are different degrees between those men being real.

We have supposed writings of contemporaries or understudies of Guatma Buddha but the validity is sometimes questioned on his reality and the timeframe of those exact writings. The same goes with Mohammed as the claims and what the evidence actually demonstrates don't show up the same way. The evidence of his reality is shaky.

Joseph Smith otherwise has great evidence for his existence. There's collected data of various types. His own writings, court case info, & reports of contemporaries in mass droves. The when Applewhite, I can watch videos of the man himself online or read interviews with people who dealt with him that still are alive today.

We have all the info of Jesus that equates to the former paragraph here. Their certainty is far from secure and the type of solid evidence that exists for the latter group is not there.

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15-10-2015, 05:13 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 04:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  Christianity is largely derived from Paul's writings. Jesus wrote nothing.

Are you suggesting a different view is suggested by the other NT writings, Compared to the Pauline epistles?

That if I were to base my religious beliefs on the other NT writings, or exclusively the four Gospels, and leave out the Epistles all together these beliefs would be quite different then if the Epistles are incorporated?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-10-2015, 05:31 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(15-10-2015 05:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 04:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  Christianity is largely derived from Paul's writings. Jesus wrote nothing.

Are you suggesting a different view is suggested by the other NT writings, Compared to the Pauline epistles?

That if I were to base my religious beliefs on the other NT writings, or exclusively the four Gospels, and leave out the Epistles all together these beliefs would be quite different then if the Epistles are incorporated?

Yeah, from what I recall from most of those writings in there alone. There wouldn't be much any difference from how a Christian views certain rules and restrictions of living from how Jews view it. One would more likely be prone to not dismiss Jesus's quotes of withholding the old laws and not abolishing those rules instead of following the gentile conversion path of dropping those rules encouraged by Paul.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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15-10-2015, 05:33 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(15-10-2015 05:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 04:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  Christianity is largely derived from Paul's writings. Jesus wrote nothing.

Are you suggesting a different view is suggested by the other NT writings, Compared to the Pauline epistles?

That if I were to base my religious beliefs on the other NT writings, or exclusively the four Gospels, and leave out the Epistles all together these beliefs would be quite different then if the Epistles are incorporated?

Your reading comprehension is awful or you're so insecure in what people are telling you that you're determined to try and find some alternate interpretation (straw manning their position).

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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15-10-2015, 05:34 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(14-10-2015 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  No one wrote of Jesus' death at the time. It is all decades later.

And that's like saying that no one took home videos of my parents when they were kids. Not a lot of people wrote back then, it might surprise you to learn they didn't use email either.

Arguably the most prominent political figure at the time was Pilate, yet we don't have a single eye witness account of Pilate. We don't even have accounts of his death, except ones written not decades later but centuries later. In fact we have no Roman accounts of Pilate, we only have Jewish sources, Philo, Josephus, and the NT writings.

And the Gospels weren't composed out of thin air, but we're complied from a variety of earlier sources, such as Q, M, L, a signs source, two discourse sources, Aramaic sources, perhaps more, all of which would have been far earlier than the Gospels themselves.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-10-2015, 05:37 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(15-10-2015 05:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  No one wrote of Jesus' death at the time. It is all decades later.

And that's like saying that no one took home videos of my parents when they were kids. Not a lot of people wrote back then, it might surprise you to learn they didn't use email either.

Arguably the most prominent political figure at the time was Pilate, yet we don't have a single eye witness account of Pilate. We don't even have accounts of his death, except ones written not decades later but centuries later. In fact we have no Roman accounts of Pilate, we only have Jewish sources, Philo, Josephus, and the NT writings.

And the Gospels weren't composed out of thin air, but we're complied from a variety of earlier sources, such as Q, M, L, a signs source, two discourse sources, Aramaic sources, perhaps more, all of which would have been far earlier than the Gospels themselves.

0_o

The cognitive dissonance and ignorance is strong with you

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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15-10-2015, 05:39 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(15-10-2015 05:33 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Your reading comprehension is awful or you're so insecure in what people are telling you that you're determined to try and find some alternate interpretation (straw manning their position).

I'm not sure how questions can be strawman. You two are the ones that introduced Pauls predominant influence on Christianity, without ever elaborating on what that influence was. As if I'm just supposed to go along with it, as if we're likely to agree.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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