"I was a christian", theist argument.
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09-10-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 10:33 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 10:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Of course it's not the reason for your atheism. Your hatred seemed to have formed after you were already an atheist. And it doesn't define your atheism.

It just defines your attitude towards the religious.

And that hatred is produced by your relationship with your in-laws. If you had amiable, and a good relationship with them, your attitude towards religion as a whole, would likely be drastically different. You would still be an atheists of course, but your feeling towards theists would be filled with considerably less resentment.

Facepalm

No, my attitude towards religion and theism is not defined by my relationship with my in-laws.

My relationship with my in-laws is based on how they have treated my wife and I over the last 4 years over a myriad of topics (none of which were religious).

Your attempts to diagnose me and my relationships with others in my life, displays not only a profound ignorance, but a profound arrogance.

So when did you acquire this hatred for the religious? You admittingly don't hate your parents, and seem pretty indifferent to the church and parishioners of your youth. That hatred toward religion didn't always exist for you right? You seem to have acquired it late here.

Did you have it prior to interacting or knowing your in-laws?

Is you own personal experience with the inherent divisiveness of religion, a prominent feature in any other personal relationship you have or had, than with your in-laws?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-10-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 10:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 10:33 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Facepalm

No, my attitude towards religion and theism is not defined by my relationship with my in-laws.

My relationship with my in-laws is based on how they have treated my wife and I over the last 4 years over a myriad of topics (none of which were religious).

Your attempts to diagnose me and my relationships with others in my life, displays not only a profound ignorance, but a profound arrogance.

So when did you acquire this hatred for the religious? You admittingly don't hate your parents, and seem pretty indifferent to the church and parishioners of your youth. That hatred toward religion didn't always exist for you right? You seem to have acquired it late here.

Did you have it prior to interacting or knowing your in-laws?

Is you own personal experience with the inherent divisiveness of religion, a prominent feature in any other personal relationship you have or had, than with your in-laws?

"So when did you acquire this hatred for the religious? "

I hate the religion and the way in which some theists wield it.

I hate TYPES of theists, not individual people wholesale (not because of their religion anyway).

"You admittingly don't hate your parents, and seem pretty indifferent to the church and parishioners of your youth. That hatred toward religion didn't always exist for you right? You seem to have acquired it late here."

As I said, my relationship with my parents is not and has never been defined by religion.

As for the WHEN I started despising religion, I have already explained this. I began to despise it after I started noticing the way in which it was being wielded against people who don't follow it. The injection of religious "morals" into a secular society and the integration of religion in politics. I started despising religion, once I stopped believing in it and started seeing the damage it was doing.

What? You want a date? I don't have one. What correlation/connection do you think you are looking for here?

"Did you have it prior to interacting or knowing your in-laws?"

No, I wasn't an atheist until after I had met my in-laws. But my distrust of religion was already firmly in place by that point.

"Is you own personal experience with the inherent divisiveness of religion, a prominent feature in any other personal relationship you have or had, than with your in-laws?"

Still trying to play shrink? My dislike and hatred of religions because of their inherent divineness, brutality, backwards thinking, illogical views, archaic concepts, and enablement of violence and bigotry and racism, is based on my experiences looking at the world and what religion does and has done within it. In-laws need not apply.

You just keep looking for whatever connection you think exists though. Since you apparently know my life better than I, as well as how and when I formed my opinions because of what reasons.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-10-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 10:52 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No, I wasn't an atheist until after I had met my in-laws. But my distrust of religion was already firmly in place by that point.

Can you clarify something for me:

TBG: “I was an atheist during the phase of dating my wife, but before knowing her family in any way other than knowing their name (I even went to a non-denominational easter service with my wife and mother-in-law while we were dating)”

AND

TBG: “No, I wasn't an atheist until after I had met my in-laws. But my distrust of religion was already firmly in place by that point.”

Earlier you suggested that you were an atheists before knowing her family in any other way beyond their names. And now you seem to be saying that you only became an atheists after meeting them.

I’m assuming you misspoke, but not sure where though.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-10-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 11:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 10:52 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No, I wasn't an atheist until after I had met my in-laws. But my distrust of religion was already firmly in place by that point.

Can you clarify something for me:

TBG: “I was an atheist during the phase of dating my wife, but before knowing her family in any way other than knowing their name (I even went to a non-denominational easter service with my wife and mother-in-law while we were dating)”

AND

TBG: “No, I wasn't an atheist until after I had met my in-laws. But my distrust of religion was already firmly in place by that point.”

Earlier you suggested that you were an atheists before knowing her family in any other way beyond their names. And now you seem to be saying that you only became an atheists after meeting them.

I’m assuming you misspoke, but not sure where though.

There is quite the difference between knowing someone, and meeting them or learning their name.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-10-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 10:52 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  My dislike and hatred of religions because of their inherent divineness, brutality, backwards thinking, illogical views, archaic concepts, and enablement of violence and bigotry and racism, is based on my experiences looking at the world and what religion does and has done within it. In-laws need not apply.

So in your view, your hatred and dislike for religion, was primarily created by religions affects on the lives of other people in the world, and not primarily created by the affects of religion on your own personal life, or your loved ones?

That its your empathy, your bleeding heart for humanity that produced your hatred for religion? And not primarily your personal interactions with your in-laws, and types like them?

Quote:I hate TYPES of theists, not individual people wholesale (not because of their religion anyway)

I understand that you don’t hate individual people wholesale, or even all religious people. Just those that fit a particular type. And I’m guessing that I fit that type for you. Though I’m not too sure why it’s types of theists, and not types of people. Unless these these types of people tend to almost exclusively be theist.

But just to be clear, those in-laws you hate are exactly these types of theists, right?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-10-2015, 11:20 AM
"I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 11:07 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 11:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Can you clarify something for me:

TBG: “I was an atheist during the phase of dating my wife, but before knowing her family in any way other than knowing their name (I even went to a non-denominational easter service with my wife and mother-in-law while we were dating)”

AND

TBG: “No, I wasn't an atheist until after I had met my in-laws. But my distrust of religion was already firmly in place by that point.”

Earlier you suggested that you were an atheists before knowing her family in any other way beyond their names. And now you seem to be saying that you only became an atheists after meeting them.

I’m assuming you misspoke, but not sure where though.

There is quite the difference between knowing someone, and meeting them or learning their name.

But just to be clear, you only became at atheist after you met your in-laws, correct?

Earlier I assumed it was prior.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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09-10-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(08-10-2015 08:30 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 08:05 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Of course an atheist may have formally been a born again, "true" Christian. Many of the people at TTA are saved. They are just bitter and in denial. Healing is available, you know!

I agree there are many people in denial... you just need to demonstrate a manner of how to consistently show what constitutes denial.

How about thousands of posts from dozens of TTA members where they attack and mock whatever theists say without bothering to weigh their arguments, visit peer-reviewed citations or fact check? Does that seem evidential to you?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-10-2015, 11:31 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
"So in your view, your hatred and dislike for religion, was primarily created by religions affects on the lives of other people in the world, and not primarily created by the affects of religion on your own personal life, or your loved ones?

That its your empathy, your bleeding heart for humanity that produced your hatred for religion? And not primarily your personal interactions with your in-laws, and types like them? "


Why do you want to distill it into one category or the other? Why is my empathy for humanity as a whole uncoupled from empathy for myself and my loved ones? Why uncouple my observations of humanity from my personal interactions with those that occupy it?

I began to despise religion because of what it had done to humanity wholesale (9/11, the crusades, the dark ages, Bosnia, Kony, anti-LGBTQ legislation, slavery, etc, etc, ad nauseam) and because of my personal interactions with the way in which some theists wield their religion.

"I understand that you don’t hate individual people wholesale, or even all religious people. Just those that fit a particular type. And I’m guessing that I fit that type for you. Though I’m not too sure why it’s types of theists, and not types of people. Unless these these types of people tend to almost exclusively be theist.

But just to be clear, those in-laws you hate are exactly these types of theists, right?"


I don't like hard-line anyone who pushes their agenda at the expense of others if it is a harmful or backwards agenda. It happens that theists occupy that niche quite commonly because religion often asserts it as a moral thing for them to do. A duty. A commandment. (Which seems to clearly be the reason YOU are here)

My in-laws occupy that niche with their theism, yes. And I despise their theism and their religion. As people, I was okay with them for a while, until (in unrelated ways) they made it clear that they had an agenda with respect to their role in our family (my wife, son, and I).

"But just to be clear, you only became at atheist after you met your in-laws, correct?

Earlier I assumed it was prior."


I assumed the title of atheist after meeting one of my in-laws (the MiL), and before the other (FiL). You'll have to give up on trying to construct a timeline that fits whatever correlation you think you're making, because it isn't simple or linear.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-10-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 11:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 08:30 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I agree there are many people in denial... you just need to demonstrate a manner of how to consistently show what constitutes denial.

How about thousands of posts from dozens of TTA members where they attack and mock whatever theists say without bothering to weigh their arguments, visit peer-reviewed citations or fact check? Does that seem evidential to you?

Peer-reviewed????? WTF does that even mean in the context of theism?

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09-10-2015, 11:38 AM
RE: "I was a christian", theist argument.
(09-10-2015 11:34 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 11:23 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How about thousands of posts from dozens of TTA members where they attack and mock whatever theists say without bothering to weigh their arguments, visit peer-reviewed citations or fact check? Does that seem evidential to you?

Peer-reviewed????? WTF does that even mean in the context of theism?

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

It was reviewed by Thor, Ra, and Shiva. Drinking Beverage

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