I will debate any atheist on here
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01-03-2015, 10:09 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
I'm currently facing the age old dilemma of just watching the train wreck or jumping into the pile up myself.

Decisions, decisions.

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01-03-2015, 10:25 PM
I will debate any atheist on here
(01-03-2015 09:53 PM)DLJ Wrote:  OK. Serious questions.

Not questions for Call_of_Nature but about him.:

Assuming he's not a Poe...

1. How does this kinda (not 'kind', 'kind of') thinking come about?
1a. Is it from tradition / culture?
1b. Is it about poor education (state/family)?
1c. Is it a geographic phenomena (i.e. a specifically Murikan version of the meme)?
1d. Is it a medical condition?

2. Is there a remedy?
(I'm particularly looking for insight from anyone here who may have previously suffered from the same delusions)
2a. Would KC's 'softly, softly' approach have proved more productive?
2b. The abrasive, fact-chucking approach seems to be making the delusion stronger; reacting like a cornered animal. Should we treat these cases like they have been infected with a virus that morphs (evolves) in order to survive attack from our antibiotics (evidence, reason, logic)?
2c. If there is no cure, what is the best solution to ensure that the infection does not spread to other innocent victims?

I'm honestly curious as to the best way to deal with this level of ignorance.

What does the panel think?

Huh

I can give you my perspective. I was raised in a stern Roman Catholic house. I went through all the rituals a good catholic boy does. Then I joined the Army. After my first deployment I came home on leave. As a good catholic I went to confession. As i kneeled and spoke of the actions and situations I was in, the priest stopped me and asked if I was a solider of god, i answered, no I'm a solider of the U.S. Army. He asked me again, and I answered the same as before. He then stated that I was going to hell for what I have done. Now understand this was not a priest I just met. This man baptized me, gave first communion, conformation and others. This man knew my family and he knew me personally. I stood up and walked out. As a good catholic, I was shocked and sickened with my fate. That is when I started to question my faith.

The blindfold I was wearing was very scary to remove, and it hurt peeking out from the darkness it cast over me. It can be difficult to change, while I was "with faith" I had the same blinded ideas and would not change my mind, even with actual evidence presented to me. Attempting to change his/her mind on the idea of god will not work. It will take a painful situation to shake the brittle foundation of believing. Just as in any life lesson, the best ones are learned on ones own.
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01-03-2015, 10:41 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(01-03-2015 10:25 PM)Typhon Wrote:  ...
I can give you my perspective. I was raised in a stern Roman Catholic house. I went through all the rituals a good catholic boy does. Then I joined the Army. After my first deployment I came home on leave. As a good catholic I went to confession. As i kneeled and spoke of the actions and situations I was in, the priest stopped me and asked if I was a solider of god, i answered, no I'm a solider of the U.S. Army. He asked me again, and I answered the same as before. He then stated that I was going to hell for what I have done. Now understand this was not a priest I just met. This man baptized me, gave first communion, conformation and others. This man knew my family and he knew me personally. I stood up and walked out. As a good catholic, I was shocked and sickened with my fate. That is when I started to question my faith.

The blindfold I was wearing was very scary to remove, and it hurt peeking out from the darkness it cast over me. It can be difficult to change, while I was "with faith" I had the same blinded ideas and would not change my mind, even with actual evidence presented to me. Attempting to change his/her mind on the idea of god will not work. It will take a painful situation to shake the brittle foundation of believing. Just as in any life lesson, the best ones are learned on ones own.

Thanks for being so candid.

The implication is that people like CotW need to be shaken out of their comfort zone: shock-therapy... but not from us... from someone who is in an even worse condition.

Like a smoker who won't give up until they see a loved one dying from lung cancer?

That's sad but it makes sense.

Thanks.

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01-03-2015, 10:45 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(01-03-2015 10:25 PM)Typhon Wrote:  
(01-03-2015 09:53 PM)DLJ Wrote:  OK. Serious questions.

Not questions for Call_of_Nature but about him.:

Assuming he's not a Poe...

1. How does this kinda (not 'kind', 'kind of') thinking come about?
1a. Is it from tradition / culture?
1b. Is it about poor education (state/family)?
1c. Is it a geographic phenomena (i.e. a specifically Murikan version of the meme)?
1d. Is it a medical condition?

2. Is there a remedy?
(I'm particularly looking for insight from anyone here who may have previously suffered from the same delusions)
2a. Would KC's 'softly, softly' approach have proved more productive?
2b. The abrasive, fact-chucking approach seems to be making the delusion stronger; reacting like a cornered animal. Should we treat these cases like they have been infected with a virus that morphs (evolves) in order to survive attack from our antibiotics (evidence, reason, logic)?
2c. If there is no cure, what is the best solution to ensure that the infection does not spread to other innocent victims?

I'm honestly curious as to the best way to deal with this level of ignorance.

What does the panel think?

Huh

I can give you my perspective. I was raised in a stern Roman Catholic house. I went through all the rituals a good catholic boy does. Then I joined the Army. After my first deployment I came home on leave. As a good catholic I went to confession. As i kneeled and spoke of the actions and situations I was in, the priest stopped me and asked if I was a solider of god, i answered, no I'm a solider of the U.S. Army. He asked me again, and I answered the same as before. He then stated that I was going to hell for what I have done. Now understand this was not a priest I just met. This man baptized me, gave first communion, conformation and others. This man knew my family and he knew me personally. I stood up and walked out. As a good catholic, I was shocked and sickened with my fate. That is when I started to question my faith.

The blindfold I was wearing was very scary to remove, and it hurt peeking out from the darkness it cast over me. It can be difficult to change, while I was "with faith" I had the same blinded ideas and would not change my mind, even with actual evidence presented to me. Attempting to change his/her mind on the idea of god will not work. It will take a painful situation to shake the brittle foundation of believing. Just as in any life lesson, the best ones are learned on ones own.

Wonderful story. I will remember it always.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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01-03-2015, 10:45 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(01-03-2015 09:17 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Well, until science can answer the specific questions that I have,


It's not going to. You're going to have to come to terms with the fact that there is a lot of shit that we just don't know...and that's okay. That's actually a requisite of faith.....in anything.

One popular insult of religion is that its members are gullible, I get where that comes from, but don't necessarily agree. My tendency towards skepticism is something I gleaned from my father, a preacher. And the tendency for me to hold on to my belief in god as long as I did (as it's the only thing I'd ever known) didn't make me gullible, just unwilling to be able to set my worldview down for a second and make sure it's what I want it to be..............unwilling at first because I wasn't aware of what it was to question everything you've ever known.......and after that it was fear.

But once I made the decision to look at every angle, and every option, and to let go of any presupposition about anything and put everything down for a minute and just take a fresh perspective without any belief or faith in any preconceived ideas about what reality is......I started putting everything together, one thing after another......it finally makes sense.

You're here, and you're insisting that we keep paying attention to you. Not because you think you're right, but because these doubts about what you think you believe are eating at you, and you can't make them go away. So you come here to combat your doubts. You know the easy retorts and you're good at them, you're just not good at the hard questions.

As long as you can claim that nothing is 100% known, you can claim that your beliefs are legit and should be given the same merit as what has been meticulously and thoroughly vetted through the scientific method. You are mistaken, and you know it.


(01-03-2015 09:17 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Oh, and Jesus definitely be here.

If he ever was here, then you'll be vindicated one day. There's just not a whole lot of good evidence that any of that shit happened like the book says it did. There is a huge amount of evidence that humans have been making up extraordinary tales about supernatural shit for as long as humans have been around. Christianity isn't that much different from any of the others and it's pretty evident that it rips off a lot of older pagan religions.

It's pretty easy to see if you're willing to take a good objective look at it.

Let that shit go and let's evolve.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-03-2015, 10:57 PM
I will debate any atheist on here
Thank you. I don't normally share things that are very personal. As I read the thread I have noticed similarities between it and my past. I decided to share with the community due to numerous factors. 1. I do not know any of you(just not yet anyway) and the anonymity the Internet gives me allows me to speak out 2. I have read other stories on here from people, the pain that religion has caused them hurts me on so many levels 3. The more we discuss what made us start to question why we opened our eyes, the more understanding there will be( at least for me there is).
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01-03-2015, 11:49 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(01-03-2015 09:53 PM)DLJ Wrote:  OK. Serious questions.

Not questions for Call_of_Nature but about him.:

Assuming he's not a Poe...

1. How does this kinda (not 'kind', 'kind of') thinking come about?
1a. Is it from tradition / culture?
1b. Is it about poor education (state/family)?
1c. Is it a geographic phenomena (i.e. a specifically Murikan version of the meme)?
1d. Is it a medical condition?

2. Is there a remedy?
(I'm particularly looking for insight from anyone here who may have previously suffered from the same delusions)
2a. Would KC's 'softly, softly' approach have proved more productive?
2b. The abrasive, fact-chucking approach seems to be making the delusion stronger; reacting like a cornered animal. Should we treat these cases like they have been infected with a virus that morphs (evolves) in order to survive attack from our antibiotics (evidence, reason, logic)?
2c. If there is no cure, what is the best solution to ensure that the infection does not spread to other innocent victims?

I'm honestly curious as to the best way to deal with this level of ignorance.

What does the panel think?

Huh

I think the best is try to be comforting. It's hard not to laugh or roll our eyes (Cartilage!). However the case, treat them nicely, almost like a friend.

Then they may start to listen.

Even then, that doesn't mean they'll accept what is said. It may take some time to actually sink in, or they may never accept it. The best way to stop the spread of ignorance is through facts. People coming across this thread through some Google search or link may actually find this helpful while they are questioning their beliefs.

Ignorance isn't something that people want to show, but when they do know they are showing it, it's kinda hard to face that spotlight and deal with being wrong. When they think the spotlight is on their ignorance, it's best to have some comforting hands there instead of derision.
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02-03-2015, 12:48 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(08-02-2015 12:23 PM)One Above All Wrote:  Provide a single, fallacy-free, logically and reality consistent argument for the existence of your particular god that doesn't apply to every other god.

Interesting fact: Arguments that have fallacies can have true conclusions. It is not necessary for an argument to be free of fallacies to have a correct conclusion.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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02-03-2015, 01:33 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(02-03-2015 12:48 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 12:23 PM)One Above All Wrote:  Provide a single, fallacy-free, logically and reality consistent argument for the existence of your particular god that doesn't apply to every other god.

Interesting fact: Arguments that have fallacies can have true conclusions. It is not necessary for an argument to be free of fallacies to have a correct conclusion.

And how often do you suppose that happens? And how often do you suppose a fallacy-free argument is wrong, when it's consistent with reality and logic?

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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02-03-2015, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 05:43 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(01-03-2015 08:47 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(01-03-2015 06:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Yet somehow you never once seem to be able to find and support any of your points with academic references. Whether they're copied or not, if they relate to the topic, and support an argument, they are appropriate. Nice try at dismissing his points. Fail. The FACT is, Moses as an historical figure, outside the Bible is not found, and there are many problems with the way the Babble presents him, and his equally fake side-kick, Joshua. Don't feel too bad, cartilage head,. No one here expects you to be able to find anything to support you claims.

I am still waiting on that real time debate, Bucky.

And you're going to keep on waiting, cartilage brain.
There is not one major university in the ENTIRE world that does not teach the Theory of Evolution, but thanks for demonstrating your utter ignorance of science.
Evolution is proven by DNA. Your Jebus is proven by NOTHING.
You are unable to refute ANY of Dr. Coyne's points.




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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