I will debate any atheist on here
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14-04-2015, 03:06 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(14-04-2015 01:08 PM)claywise Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 12:05 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Delusion: The firm belief in something even in the face of superior evidence to the contrary

Religion: The embracement of delusion.

I know, but really, I know very smart people who really, really buy this. I guess intelligence isn't determinative of delusion, but it still seems so strange to me.

It's that very foundational formulation that convinces me it's all bunkum: God set the whole damned, foolish, lunatic thing up but it's just a Rube Goldberg edifice that makes no sense whatsoever.

most of those grew up in it, immersed in the delusion, and it is part of them now, to abandon it is an alien thought.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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14-04-2015, 06:56 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(13-04-2015 01:18 PM)David Kragt Wrote:  You are looking at the small picture just like one of the blind men touching the elephant

If you ever lose your faith, then you will understand that the picture gets considerably larger without "god" in it.

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15-04-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(27-03-2015 07:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-03-2015 09:08 AM)David Kragt Wrote:  As the universe ages its energy will be consumed and it will cool down to near absolute zero. As it cools the forces holding the molecules together will weaken and cause them to separate into their component atoms. The same will hold true for the atoms and they will also separate into their component parts. Long before this all happens life will cease to exist, there will be no more life, not one smidgeon of evidence that it ever existed, and no memory of it. Life will be just as though it had never been.
The universe began its course without our assistance long before life evolved, now that we are here it's continuing on precisely the same course it would have if we hadn't arrived, and it will continue on the same course after we are gone. We contribute nothing to the universe we can do nothing to change its course we are helpless bystanders. Imagine there was a parallel universe, the only difference being that biological evolution never took place. That universe would end precisely the same way as this one. This makes us totally irrelevant to our universe.
Suppose that another universe existed prior to this one and has already wound down. It simply doesn't matter whether or not life evolved in that universe. If it did evolve it simply doesn't matter what level of intelligence it reached. It simply doesn't matter the length of its existance. This is the big picture it allows for the existance of other life in the universe or the possibility that human beings migrated from our solar system to another part of theuniverse.
Our existance in the universe could cease long before this if life only exists in our solar system. Long before the sun consumes most of its fuel in 4 to 5 billion years and expands to the size of the earth's orbit life will no longer exist. This is the medium picture It could end even sooner than this by war, famine, disease, climate change an asteroid striking earth, or something else. This is the small picture.Our existance is totally irrelevant and unimportant to the existance of the universe.
We consist of a miniscule number of atoms compared to the number of atoms in the universe, we live in a miniscule amount of space in a universe more than 20 billion light years accross, and we exist for a miniscule amount of time in a universe 15.7 billion years young. The same is true of each of those pesky mosquitos I swatted this summer. We are totally insignificant in the universe. To think that just because our atoms are arranged a little differently that we are more valueable than mosquitos is just silly elitism. When I look up the word meaningless in the Thesaurus both words, unimportant and insigficant appear as synonyms
Atheists only concentrate on the small picture. This is like focusng on just one tree and then not eing able to see the vast forest around it or like the blind men and the elephant.This gives them a distorted sense of reality causing them to say thingsd like if nothiing matters then everything matters this is obviously contradictory because if nothing matters then nothing matters. Some say that life itself is meaningless but that they create their own meaning. This is a contradiction and a fantasy. They are doing exactly what they accuse religious people of doing. Some atheists say that passing their genes on to the next generation is what gives life meaning but that can only last until the final generation. Some say the value of life is the legacy we leave behind. There is no legacy.

We should throw a party.

Every day is a party Smile

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15-04-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(14-04-2015 03:06 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(14-04-2015 01:08 PM)claywise Wrote:  I know, but really, I know very smart people who really, really buy this. I guess intelligence isn't determinative of delusion, but it still seems so strange to me.

It's that very foundational formulation that convinces me it's all bunkum: God set the whole damned, foolish, lunatic thing up but it's just a Rube Goldberg edifice that makes no sense whatsoever.

most of those grew up in it, immersed in the delusion, and it is part of them now, to abandon it is an alien thought.

I grew up in a young earth creationist family. Leaving it was one of the most difficult things I have ever done, and cognitive dissonance for most people is far too painful to deal with.

There was a time in my life when you could throw any rational argument my way that would make completely coherent sense, but if I thought it would make me doubt god, my ears got plugged and I went "LA LA LA LA" and google searched for endless things to agree with my side of the argument, and never even bothered looking at any evidence to the contrary.

It took years to break it. That's only because I stopped going to church and got more interested in astronomy and other hobbies that actually got me interested in science. There is no magic bullet to any single person, unfortunate. It's like pillars of delusion that have to come crumbling down one by one before the structure falls.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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16-04-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(24-03-2015 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(24-03-2015 09:08 AM)David Kragt Wrote:  As the universe ages its energy will be consumed and it will cool down to near absolute zero. As it cools the forces holding the molecules together will weaken and cause them to separate into their component atoms. The same will hold true for the atoms and they will also separate into their component parts. Long before this all happens life will cease to exist, there will be no more life, not one smidgeon of evidence that it ever existed, and no memory of it. Life will be just as though it had never been.
The universe began its course without our assistance long before life evolved, now that we are here it's continuing on precisely the same course it would have if we hadn't arrived, and it will continue on the same course after we are gone. We contribute nothing to the universe we can do nothing to change its course we are helpless bystanders. Imagine there was a parallel universe, the only difference being that biological evolution never took place. That universe would end precisely the same way as this one. This makes us totally irrelevant to our universe.
Suppose that another universe existed prior to this one and has already wound down. It simply doesn't matter whether or not life evolved in that universe. If it did evolve it simply doesn't matter what level of intelligence it reached. It simply doesn't matter the length of its existance. This is the big picture it allows for the existance of other life in the universe or the possibility that human beings migrated from our solar system to another part of theuniverse.
Our existance in the universe could cease long before this if life only exists in our solar system. Long before the sun consumes most of its fuel in 4 to 5 billion years and expands to the size of the earth's orbit life will no longer exist. This is the medium picture It could end even sooner than this by war, famine, disease, climate change an asteroid striking earth, or something else. This is the small picture.Our existance is totally irrelevant and unimportant to the existance of the universe.
We consist of a miniscule number of atoms compared to the number of atoms in the universe, we live in a miniscule amount of space in a universe more than 20 billion light years accross, and we exist for a miniscule amount of time in a universe 15.7 billion years young. The same is true of each of those pesky mosquitos I swatted this summer. We are totally insignificant in the universe. To think that just because our atoms are arranged a little differently that we are more valueable than mosquitos is just silly elitism. When I look up the word meaningless in the Thesaurus both words, unimportant and insigficant appear as synonyms
Atheists only concentrate on the small picture. This is like focusng on just one tree and then not eing able to see the vast forest around it or like the blind men and the elephant.This gives them a distorted sense of reality causing them to say thingsd like if nothiing matters then everything matters this is obviously contradictory because if nothing matters then nothing matters. Some say that life itself is meaningless but that they create their own meaning. This is a contradiction and a fantasy. They are doing exactly what they accuse religious people of doing. Some atheists say that passing their genes on to the next generation is what gives life meaning but that can only last until the final generation. Some say the value of life is the legacy we leave behind. There is no legacy.

Sounds like all doom and gloom. Might as well commit suicide. But, since you don't do that, then apparently yes, there is worth and meaning in life no matter how short or insignificant. Does any of it matter in a cosmic sense? Not really. But it matters to us and, to us, that's all that matters. And it still doesn't prove "god" if that's what you're coming around to. Desiring or needing a god to bring more meaning doesn't make the god a fact.

By the way, welcome.

Thanks for proving my point that atheists are like the blind men touching the elephant. If it doesn't matter in a cosmic sense it simply doesn't matter. Atheists want it to matter so they concentrate on one small part of reality at the expense of the big picture.
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16-04-2015, 01:40 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-04-2015 09:59 AM)David Kragt Wrote:  Thanks for proving my point that atheists are like the blind men touching the elephant. If it doesn't matter in a cosmic sense it simply doesn't matter. Atheists want it to matter so they concentrate on one small part of reality at the expense of the big picture.

Thanks for telling us what we think Dodgy That sure is the way to bring a man to Jeezus. Amen brother, preach it.

Thanks for also proving that you don't bother reading or understanding anyone's posts but your own. Must be fun living in the echo chamber that's your skull.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-04-2015, 01:58 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(14-04-2015 06:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(13-04-2015 01:18 PM)David Kragt Wrote:  You are looking at the small picture just like one of the blind men touching the elephant

If you ever lose your faith, then you will understand that the picture gets considerably larger without "god" in it.

Impulse your response made me think of the following.

As a believer I counted on Jeebus to have my back, everything that happened in my life had a reason, part of larger scheme unknown to me but I trusted the pilot.

Looking back and comparing the way I view my life now vs then everything is more urgent now, brighter, more in focus. The mysteries are more profound, my drive to give my life meaning beyond myself more powerful, my friendships are stronger and more treasured, my vows more sacred. I am happier than ever, self-accountable, more responsible for my words and actions but I have become less tolerant, that is true. Laugh out load

I cannot think of anything that was better when I believed than now.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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17-04-2015, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2015 08:35 AM by Chas.)
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-04-2015 09:59 AM)David Kragt Wrote:  Thanks for proving my point that atheists are like the blind men touching the elephant.

How so? That simile doesn't seem to apply in any way.

Quote:If it doesn't matter in a cosmic sense it simply doesn't matter.

That's an infantile viewpoint. Grow up - take responsibility for your own life, your own happiness, your own meaning.

Quote:Atheists want it to matter so they concentrate on one small part of reality at the expense of the big picture.

No, that sounds like theists. We know that we, ourselves, have to make it matter.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-04-2015, 11:15 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-04-2015 09:59 AM)David Kragt Wrote:  Thanks for proving my point that atheists are like the blind men touching the elephant. If it doesn't matter in a cosmic sense it simply doesn't matter. Atheists want it to matter so they concentrate on one small part of reality at the expense of the big picture.

Oh look already copy+pasting nonsense by your second post and your next two don't even seem to be contextually, philosophically, or even tangentially related to the thing your actually quoting.

So who are you, why are you stupid, and what can we do to help you with that?

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18-04-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-04-2015 09:59 AM)David Kragt Wrote:  
(24-03-2015 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Sounds like all doom and gloom. Might as well commit suicide. But, since you don't do that, then apparently yes, there is worth and meaning in life no matter how short or insignificant. Does any of it matter in a cosmic sense? Not really. But it matters to us and, to us, that's all that matters. And it still doesn't prove "god" if that's what you're coming around to. Desiring or needing a god to bring more meaning doesn't make the god a fact.

By the way, welcome.

Thanks for proving my point that atheists are like the blind men touching the elephant. If it doesn't matter in a cosmic sense it simply doesn't matter. Atheists want it to matter so they concentrate on one small part of reality at the expense of the big picture.

Define the following:

atheists
cosmic sense
reality
big picture

then I will drag you around the school yard while beating you with the knowledge stick.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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