I will debate any atheist on here
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09-02-2015, 07:56 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(08-02-2015 07:01 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 12:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because the Bible is the claim, not the evidence.

Again, just like I asked another..what kind of extra-biblical evidence would be sufficient enough to prove Christianity true?

That's not the way it works. If you have some, present it. It will then be evaluated.

Why is that concept so difficult?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2015, 07:59 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 06:50 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 11:33 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  [Image: img-2778815-1-192380__UNOPT__safe_pinkie...my_cry.gif]
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(09-02-2015 02:17 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  [Image: MLP_FiM_whypostthat.gif]

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09-02-2015, 08:00 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 07:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 07:01 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Again, just like I asked another..what kind of extra-biblical evidence would be sufficient enough to prove Christianity true?

That's not the way it works. If you have some, present it. It will then be evaluated.

Why is that concept so difficult?

Because he's full of shit, has no independently verifiable evidence, and he's knows it? Consider

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09-02-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 07:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 07:01 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Again, just like I asked another..what kind of extra-biblical evidence would be sufficient enough to prove Christianity true?

That's not the way it works. If you have some, present it. It will then be evaluated.

Why is that concept so difficult?

Pssst, Chas... I think it’s because he doesn’t have anything else and is trying desperately to get you to surreptitiously help him.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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09-02-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(08-02-2015 07:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Progress has been made on that, but you just stand by your god-of-the-gaps argument.

Progress? Either you can empirically prove abiogenesis or you can't..."Progress" lol.

What are you, 13? Are you home-schooled? Have you ever read a science book?

Seriously, dude, you do not understand how science or the search for knowledge works.

Progress is what happens in science - we learn more and more. Your mistaken need for black and white answers is childish.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(08-02-2015 07:38 PM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 07:11 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The longer I’m here the less reason I find in discussing anything having to do with gods with theists. Yes it can be entertaining and good for a few laughs but in the end we might as well be talking to a wall. Hey! That reminds me of this story...

Where was I? Oh, right...arguing with theists.

First thing they do is point at their holy scriptures and quote them as though this holds any sway over me. I would have to believe them first and I don’t so they might as well quote to me something from The Lord of The Rings Trilogy as it would have as much impact. Like Chas says the Bible is the claim not the evidence.

Then they want to riddle you with question regarding the origins of life as though somehow humanity’s continuing quest to conclusively answer how abiogenesis occured somehow supports whatever supernatural pet theory they hold. This holds true for the event referred to as the Big Bang and what existed “before” if anything. God of the gaps is the default position for every unknown in our compedium of knowledge, an absurd and ignorant proposition. Somehow the truth position of “we don’t know” or “we don’t know yet” equates in their feeble minds as a weakness that inconceivably strengthens their argument for the supernatural.

Meanwhile whenever they are asked for evidence of their pet god what you get is a combination of presuppossitional gymnastics worthy of Olympic gold or circular arguments but nary a trace of hard proof. None, nada, zip, zilch. Look, I’m not asking for anything more than I ask of any claimant for any other claim, present verifiable evidence and be done with it, shit or get off the pot.

Now, back to something actually important, how to make a proper potato salad (hint, it requires sour cream).

I can't help noticing that you are not only a declared atheist, but also proud of it, almost conceited, and I don't understand why. Do you feel a certain satisfaction when you think about yourself as an atheist, as opposed to a "stupid" believer? Are you doing this out of pride, or just to spite people who believe? I believe, and I'm not religious. I think religion is one of the worst things that ever happened to mankind. Because religion lies to us about God. It tells us that (1) there is a God and that (2) God is good. The lie in not in the first part of the statement, but in the second. That's the difficult thing to digest, and of course any decent human being would rather deny the former than accept the opposite of the latter. However, you might say, "Yeah, but if we deny the former we don't have to worry about the latter, do we?" True. My hat off to you for saying that. Now, let me tell you a story about my "personal" relationship with God:

I am a normal human being, but I have an "imaginary" boss who keeps telling me what to do. I don't normally like that, but what am I going to do? He's my boss. Sometimes I don't understand why he wants me to do certain things, but, again, he's my boss. I have to do what he says, or else.
At some point, after being bossed around all over the place for a long time, I say to myself: "Okay, screw this! I've had enough." I confront him and we get into a fight, which immediately turns into a feud. He's so cruel that he doesn't even fire me. No! He actually makes sure that I can't get a transfer and will never be able to work anywhere else, because he wants to keep a close eye on me and make my life miserable. He wants to pay me back for having dared to tell him off.
Now my life is even worse that it was before. At least then he was only my horrible boss; now he's my revengeful, horrible enemy-boss, who's reinventing the art of torturing. On me! Finally, at the end of my wits, I ask myself: "How can I possibly get out of this predicament? Can anybody help me here?" Just stop imagining him, dummy! You said he was your imaginary boss. Yeah, I did, didn't I? But I used quotations, didn't you notice? He's not imaginary at all. I wish he were!

You sound delusional. Get some help from a mental health professional.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2015, 08:18 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2015 09:07 AM by Chas.)
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 06:52 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  Just to make things clear, I do not have a "personal relationship" with God in the conventional way (actually I hate religion, with its indoctrination), but that doesn't mean God does not exist. I don't base my convictions on my own feelings and believe only what I want to believe. I base my convictions (about God's existence) on a logical interpretation of the hardcore evidence that I see around me. I find God mean, at best, but sweeping the dirt under the rug is not going to make it disappear; it's just going to put it out of sight. It would be a lot easier for me to pretend there was no God and go on with my life, don't you think? But no matter what, ultimately, I will never be able to lie to myself. I AM myself, and I would know about it!

What is the "hardcore evidence that I see around me"?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2015, 08:24 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2015 12:35 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
“He sat still and ignored the thought furiously. It nagged at him. He ignored it. It nagged at him. He ignored it. It nagged at him. He gave in to it.

What the hell, he thought, go with the flow. He was too tired, confused and hungry to resist. He didn’t even know what the thought meant.”

Zaphod’s character from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe by Douglas Adams. Chapter 5, page 33


Henceforth Job_1027 shall be known throughout TTA as “Zaphod”.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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09-02-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 06:52 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 08:46 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Job 1207,

Now that I have read your post, how can I reliably distinguish between this God you claim to have a personal relationship with and something that you are merely imagining?

Why would I be imagining the horrible "boss" I described in my post? Just to make my life miserable? What the hell would I gain from that? Who goes wishing they'd go to war one day and have their legs amputated by an exploding mine, or even worse, be the parent of a young soldier who suffered that? Would you be able to distinguish between imaginary and real if it were you and not a stranger you hear about on the news channel?

Just to make things clear, I do not have a "personal relationship" with God in the conventional way (actually I hate religion, with its indoctrination), but that doesn't mean God does not exist. I don't base my convictions on my own feelings and believe only what I want to believe. I base my convictions (about God's existence) on a logical interpretation of the hardcore evidence that I see around me. I find God mean, at best, but sweeping the dirt under the rug is not going to make it disappear; it's just going to put it out of sight. It would be a lot easier for me to pretend there was no God and go on with my life, don't you think? But no matter what, ultimately, I will never be able to lie to myself. I AM myself, and I would know about it!

This does not answer the question. I still am left with no alternative but to imagine this God you speak of. You say that you have so much hard core evidence but I have yet to see any. I have no doubt that if you ever do produce this evidence it will still require me to use my imagination in order to apprehend your God. It will only be evidence to someone who imagines a God behind it.

I contend that your God is wholly imagined and does not actually exist. I know this to be true because it is indistinguishable from something that is imaginary. That is why all of you are driven to get others to believe without evidence, because you somehow think that if enough people imagine along side you then it will be true. It won't though because reality does not conform itself to the imagination. Existence exists independently from anyone's conscious activity.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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09-02-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 07:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-02-2015 06:31 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'm no authority on potatoes but German potato salad is the best. Period. Any contrary opinion to this absolute truth will be met with violence and death.

Although you are correct about German potato salad, you are a violent fundamentalist and must be drowned in cole slaw. It is for the best.

Only if it has bacon in it and in the dressing.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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