I will debate any atheist on here
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09-02-2015, 10:30 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:17 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 08:57 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  This does not answer the question. I still am left with no alternative but to imagine this God you speak of. You say that you have so much hard core evidence but I have yet to see any. I have no doubt that if you ever do produce this evidence it will still require me to use my imagination in order to apprehend your God. It will only be evidence to someone who imagines a God behind it.

I contend that your God is wholly imagined and does not actually exist. I know this to be true because it is indistinguishable from something that is imaginary. That is why all of you are driven to get others to believe without evidence, because you somehow think that if enough people imagine along side you then it will be true. It won't though because reality does not conform itself to the imagination. Existence exists independently from anyone's conscious activity.

Do you know what an educated guess is? I think you do.

Do you know what a practical impossibility is? You may, you may not.

Now, when I see a practical impossibility unfolding right before my eyes, I make an educated guess that we're no longer talking about the mathematical probability for that thing to have happened, but the absolute zero possibility for that to have happened. But I just saw it happen 100% real. How come an event that has 0% chances of happening just did? Your problem is that you mistake the probability, which may be a very small number, with an impossibility, which is zero. Not zero point something; just zero. You don't make the distinction between those two and that prevents you from seeing what I see. You see 0.00....001% and rest assured that it could have happened "by chance"; I see 0% and know it didn't happen by chance. It's simple maths, nothing else.

Please cite some examples of impossible things you have seen. Be specific. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-02-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:17 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 08:57 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  This does not answer the question. I still am left with no alternative but to imagine this God you speak of. You say that you have so much hard core evidence but I have yet to see any. I have no doubt that if you ever do produce this evidence it will still require me to use my imagination in order to apprehend your God. It will only be evidence to someone who imagines a God behind it.

I contend that your God is wholly imagined and does not actually exist. I know this to be true because it is indistinguishable from something that is imaginary. That is why all of you are driven to get others to believe without evidence, because you somehow think that if enough people imagine along side you then it will be true. It won't though because reality does not conform itself to the imagination. Existence exists independently from anyone's conscious activity.

Do you know what an educated guess is? I think you do.

Do you know what a practical impossibility is? You may, you may not.

Now, when I see a practical impossibility unfolding right before my eyes, I make an educated guess that we're no longer talking about the mathematical probability for that thing to have happened, but the absolute zero possibility for that to have happened. But I just saw it happen 100% real. How come an event that has 0% chances of happening just did? Your problem is that you mistake the probability, which may be a very small number, with an impossibility, which is zero. Not zero point something; just zero. You don't make the distinction between those two and that prevents you from seeing what I see. You see 0.00....001% and rest assured that it could have happened "by chance"; I see 0% and know it didn't happen by chance. It's simple maths, nothing else.

You didn’t listen to the Radiolab show I posted a link to did you?

   

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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09-02-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:12 AM)Free Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 09:46 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  You almost nailed it, my friend, but your slight omission proves you haven't been paying attention to the world around you. Amazing shit happens, therefore God.
Ever heard of practical impossibilities? How many would you need to be presented with before you deigned to step down from your pedestal and take a closer look at the evidence?

Again, what evidence?

And do you understand that it is this kind of dishonesty from Christians that contributes to people becoming atheists?

Who said I was Christian? I'm not Christian, or any other religion. Religion is for ass kissers, literally. It's for people who want something in return (eternal life, no less!) for their "good deeds," and that's just sad. It's sad that an intelligent species can have more than half of its members practice that on a regular basis, and believe what they do is good. I pity them, even though, according to their theory I'll end up in hell. I can't wait!

On the other hand, what you guys do is mistake God for religion. And because you can't separate the two, you automatically presume that someone who believes there is a God must be religious or have religious expectations.

As for the evidence, I wasn't being dishonest by keeping it hidden. It's not like a "magic sentence" you read somewhere and then you see the "truth." It comprises many aspect of life and it can be studied carefully. If you want to get into details, I'm willing to do it. We can debate them one at the time, and we'll play on your turf because most of the evidence is from the animal world. You tell me when, and I'll start pitching. I have a bunch of them.

It doesn't matter what I believe; all that matters is what I can prove!
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09-02-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:39 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 10:12 AM)Free Wrote:  Again, what evidence?

And do you understand that it is this kind of dishonesty from Christians that contributes to people becoming atheists?

Who said I was Christian? I'm not Christian, or any other religion. Religion is for ass kissers, literally. It's for people who want something in return (eternal life, no less!) for their "good deeds," and that's just sad. It's sad that an intelligent species can have more than half of its members practice that on a regular basis, and believe what they do is good. I pity them, even though, according to their theory I'll end up in hell. I can't wait!

On the other hand, what you guys do is mistake God for religion. And because you can't separate the two, you automatically presume that someone who believes there is a God must be religious or have religious expectations.

As for the evidence, I wasn't being dishonest by keeping it hidden. It's not like a "magic sentence" you read somewhere and then you see the "truth." It comprises many aspect of life and it can be studied carefully. If you want to get into details, I'm willing to do it. We can debate them one at the time, and we'll play on your turf because most of the evidence is from the animal world. You tell me when, and I'll start pitching. I have a bunch of them.

At work.

Perhaps you would like to start a new thread? Give it a suitable title?

Also, welcome to the forums! Big Grin

Much cheers to all.
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09-02-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:39 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 10:12 AM)Free Wrote:  Again, what evidence?

And do you understand that it is this kind of dishonesty from Christians that contributes to people becoming atheists?

Who said I was Christian? I'm not Christian, or any other religion. Religion is for ass kissers, literally. It's for people who want something in return (eternal life, no less!) for their "good deeds," and that's just sad. It's sad that an intelligent species can have more than half of its members practice that on a regular basis, and believe what they do is good. I pity them, even though, according to their theory I'll end up in hell. I can't wait!

On the other hand, what you guys do is mistake God for religion. And because you can't separate the two, you automatically presume that someone who believes there is a God must be religious or have religious expectations.

As for the evidence, I wasn't being dishonest by keeping it hidden. It's not like a "magic sentence" you read somewhere and then you see the "truth." It comprises many aspect of life and it can be studied carefully. If you want to get into details, I'm willing to do it. We can debate them one at the time, and we'll play on your turf because most of the evidence is from the animal world. You tell me when, and I'll start pitching. I have a bunch of them.

Which god are you peddling? And please do provide this evidence. You've spoken in very vague terms so far.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-02-2015, 10:44 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:39 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 10:12 AM)Free Wrote:  Again, what evidence?

And do you understand that it is this kind of dishonesty from Christians that contributes to people becoming atheists?

Who said I was Christian? I'm not Christian, or any other religion. Religion is for ass kissers, literally. It's for people who want something in return (eternal life, no less!) for their "good deeds," and that's just sad. It's sad that an intelligent species can have more than half of its members practice that on a regular basis, and believe what they do is good. I pity them, even though, according to their theory I'll end up in hell. I can't wait!

On the other hand, what you guys do is mistake God for religion. And because you can't separate the two, you automatically presume that someone who believes there is a God must be religious or have religious expectations.

As for the evidence, I wasn't being dishonest by keeping it hidden. It's not like a "magic sentence" you read somewhere and then you see the "truth." It comprises many aspect of life and it can be studied carefully. If you want to get into details, I'm willing to do it. We can debate them one at the time, and we'll play on your turf because most of the evidence is from the animal world. You tell me when, and I'll start pitching. I have a bunch of them.

Pitch away!
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09-02-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 09:46 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 07:02 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Let me guess. Shit happens therefore god.

You almost nailed it, my friend, but your slight omission proves you haven't been paying attention to the world around you. Amazing shit happens, therefore God.
Ever heard of practical impossibilities? How many would you need to be presented with before you deigned to step down from your pedestal and take a closer look at the evidence?

Personal stories aren't evidence. Period. You might think they are since they influenced your decisions, but they aren't evidence of anything. If believing in god makes you feel good, that's fine -- but you can't expect everyone to just believe you because you say so. Correlation does not imply causation -- it never has and never will.

When I look back on history, anthropology, psychology and sociology, I see actual evidence why gods were invented by people. These aren't personal stories. It's evidenced throughout history. As our knowledge increases with each generation beliefs are altered -- the magic is removed and replaced with science. There are people alive today that still believe epilepsy is caused by demonic possession. And there will always be charlatans who will prey on those beliefs -- so called psychics and faith healers do it all the time. A personal anecdote is only evidence of story telling. It's not proof the story told is truthful, regardless of the number of people who believe it.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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09-02-2015, 10:50 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 09:46 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 07:02 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Let me guess. Shit happens therefore god.

You almost nailed it, my friend, but your slight omission proves you haven't been paying attention to the world around you. Amazing shit happens, therefore God.
Ever heard of practical impossibilities? How many would you need to be presented with before you deigned to step down from your pedestal and take a closer look at the evidence?

Your basic position is what is known as an argument from incredulity. It is a fallacy in informal logic and a form of the argument from ignorance. It is a type of false dichotomy in that it ignores other available options. One of those other available options is no god was required.

There is no known evidence that suggests getting from the Big Bang to this thread required any miracles. No laws of physics or rules of chemistry had to be broken to get us from there to here. Inserting god just because you think you are some kind of special snowflake that required a miracle to happen violates Occam’s razor because you are adding an assumption with no evidence that such an assumption is necessary.

Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.

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09-02-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:44 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 10:39 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  It comprises many aspect of life and it can be studied carefully. If you want to get into details, I'm willing to do it. We can debate them one at the time, and we'll play on your turf because most of the evidence is from the animal world. You tell me when, and I'll start pitching. I have a bunch of them.

Pitch away!
Yes, please. Let him pitch.
I'm anxious to see what 'amazing' example he shows first.

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09-02-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(09-02-2015 10:39 AM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 10:12 AM)Free Wrote:  Again, what evidence?

And do you understand that it is this kind of dishonesty from Christians that contributes to people becoming atheists?

Who said I was Christian? I'm not Christian, or any other religion. Religion is for ass kissers, literally. It's for people who want something in return (eternal life, no less!) for their "good deeds," and that's just sad. It's sad that an intelligent species can have more than half of its members practice that on a regular basis, and believe what they do is good. I pity them, even though, according to their theory I'll end up in hell. I can't wait!

On the other hand, what you guys do is mistake God for religion. And because you can't separate the two, you automatically presume that someone who believes there is a God must be religious or have religious expectations.

As for the evidence, I wasn't being dishonest by keeping it hidden. It's not like a "magic sentence" you read somewhere and then you see the "truth." It comprises many aspect of life and it can be studied carefully. If you want to get into details, I'm willing to do it. We can debate them one at the time, and we'll play on your turf because most of the evidence is from the animal world. You tell me when, and I'll start pitching. I have a bunch of them.

You have already been asked multiple times to provide evidence. You have, so far, ignored those requests.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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