I will debate any atheist on here
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16-02-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
I thought my explanation was fairly straightforward. Your brain is made up of neurons. These link together to form neural networks through the patterns of the firing of these neurons. Your consciousness is a result of these neurons firing. Just like a computers display is a result of 1's and 0's. That's it. If you break it down to its core that's all it is. I tried to give a simple analogy so it could be understood.

Likewise I will break down why I think you don't understand evolution. Evolution, without all the fluff and feathers, is the variation in alleles in a population over time. Thats it. That's all it is. You seem to imply that evolution has agency. This is as ludicrous as saying that F=ma has agency. It's a fact of nature. It is the implications of this that bothers evolution deniers.

You construct strawmen, project your own ideas onto me, and make statements like:

Quote:break it down to me so that I understand it...so that I can disagree with it right after.
and then wonder why I dismiss you.
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16-02-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
If this thread actually breaks out into a real debate with CallhimWild, someone please notify me - via smoke signals or carrier pigeon...that's it - send a raven.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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16-02-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-02-2015 01:26 PM)Job_1207 Wrote:  ... Wrote stuff...

Hello again. Big Grin

Might I suggest starting your own thread, or perhaps using another thread you've created to chat about such things?

I believe people are having enough effort in trying to keep Call_of_the_Wild on track about things that your own thoughts are... more 'Muddying the waters' than offering help.

Just a thought. Smile

Much cheers to all.
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16-02-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-02-2015 02:08 PM)natachan Wrote:  I thought my explanation was fairly straightforward. Your brain is made up of neurons. These link together to form neural networks through the patterns of the firing of these neurons. Your consciousness is a result of these neurons firing. Just like a computers display is a result of 1's and 0's. That's it. If you break it down to its core that's all it is. I tried to give a simple analogy so it could be understood.

Likewise I will break down why I think you don't understand evolution. Evolution, without all the fluff and feathers, is the variation in alleles in a population over time. Thats it. That's all it is. You seem to imply that evolution has agency. This is as ludicrous as saying that F=ma has agency. It's a fact of nature. It is the implications of this that bothers evolution deniers.

You construct strawmen, project your own ideas onto me, and make statements like:

Quote:break it down to me so that I understand it...so that I can disagree with it right after.
and then wonder why I dismiss you.

Consciousness requires input from sensory nerves, and a (learned and stored) "reference system" (memory) it (the sensory input) is referenced to. In a way, "consciousness" is illusory, as the "inputting and referencing" takes some nano-seconds, thus what is experienced as the "present" is actually in the very immediate past. Not so difficult, and it's not at all "mysterious" (much as religionists would like to claim. Damaged brains and neurological systems are not conscious. In the absence of a functioning, intact and oxygenated neurological neurological system, there is no evidence of consciousness.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-02-2015, 02:21 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
K. Honestly to me it's just a curiosity piece. I understand only enough to where I get the basics, I care not beyond that.
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16-02-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(14-02-2015 10:10 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(14-02-2015 09:32 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  The only thing you’ve shut down is your reasoning skills.

In my short tenure on here, people have argued the possibility of whether something can pop into being uncaused out of nothing, and whether inanimate matter can suddenly come to life and begin talking, thinking, and having sex...

Yet, my reasoning skills is shut down? Laugh out load

For starters, this very comment supports that it has. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-02-2015, 02:43 PM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2015 10:47 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(16-02-2015 01:26 PM)Job_1207 Wrote:  
(16-02-2015 11:39 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  I haven't been following this conversation, so excuse my intrusion....but I find your post intriguing....but not strange really. I understand believing in something bigger than you, while not subscribing to the delusion of religion=church. That may put you into a more intelligent philosophical category then a true blue biblical based believer. The question I have is why do you have faith?

I have found that faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence. Faith is pretending to know things that you dont know. To say "I have faith in god" really means "I pretend to know things I don't know about god"....THINK about it, you dont know, you HOPE. Faith is an epistemology. It's a method and process people use to understand reality. Faith-based claims are knowledge claims. For example, "I have faith that jesus christ will heal my sickness because it says so in Luke" is a knowledge claim. The utterer of this statement is asserting jesus will heal her. Those who make faith claims are professing to know something about the external world. For example, when someone says "jesus walked on water" (matthew 14:22-33), that person is claiming TO KNOW there was an historical figure names jesus and that he, unaided by technology, literally walked across the surface of the water. This is a knowledge claim...an objective statement of fact.

Your religious beliefs typically depend on the community in which you were raised or lived. The spiritual experiences of people in ancient greece, medieval japan or 21st century saudia arabia do not lead to belief in christianity. It seems, therefore, that religious belief very likely tracks not truth but social conditioning.

Faith is a failed epistemology. Showing why faith fails has been done before and done well. (Bering 2011, Harris 2004, Loftus 2010, 2013, McCormick 2012, Schick & Vaughn 2008, Shermer 1997, 2011, Smith 1979, STenger & Barker 2012, Torres 2012, Wade 2009 etc)

If a belief is based on insufficient evidence, than any further conclusion drawn from the belief will at best be of questionable value. This can not point one to the path of truth. Here are five points believers/non believers should be able to agree upon.

1) There are different faith traditions.
2) Different faith traditions make different truth claims.
3) The truth claims of some faith traditions contradict the truth claims of other faith traditions. For example, Muslims believe muhammad (570-632) was the last prophet (Sura 33:40). Mormons believe Joseph Smith (1805-1844), who lived after muhammad was a prophet.
4) It cannot both be the case that muhammad was the last prophet, and someone who lived after him was also a prophet.
5) Therefore: At LEAST one of these claims must be false....perhaps both....

it is impossible to figure out which of these claims is incorrect if the tool one uses is faith. As a tool, as an epistemology, as a method of reasoning, as a process for knowing the world, faith cannot adjudicate between competing claims. The ONLY way to figure out which claims about the world are likely true, and which are likely false, is through reason and evidence. There is no other way.....yet.

When I ask people why do they have faith, I commonly get "why take away faith if it helps people get through the day"...I've never really understood how removing a bad way to reason will make it difficult to get through the day. If anything, it would seem that correcting someone's reasoning would significantly increase their chances of getting through their day.

With reliable forms of reasoning comes the capability of crafting conditions that enable people to navigate life's obstacles. By using a more reliable form of reasoning, people are more capable of bringing about conditions that enable them to flourish.

To argue that people need faith is to abandon hope, and to condescend and accuse the faithful of being incapable of understanding the importance of reason and rationality. There are better and worse ways to come to terms with death, to find strength during times of personal crisis, to make meaning and purpose in our lives, to interpret our sense of awe and wonder, and to contribute to human well-being...and the faithful are completely capable of understanding and achieving this..if they would only try.

Your thoughts?

I like the way you put things. You seem to be an educated, decent human being. And I agree with everything you say in your post, except that is doesn't apply to me personally. I'll explain in a minute why.

The reasons you pointed out for why someone would have faith in a "God" are all true. Also the reasons you put forth for why the same someone should try to live with the "truth" and accept it as what it is (rather than lie to themselves that there is a God, just because it makes them feel better) are spot on.
However, and there had to be a however, things are not always what we want them to be.

And now the explanation I promised about my personal conviction. I can say about myself that I am convinced there is a God, but I don't have "faith" in him. The reason for my conviction is the accumulated personal experience and knowledge that I have gathered so far in my life (I'm 43, by the way, if that's important). I'm not part of a church, never have been, although by birth I think I'm supposed to be a Christian. My parents are not really believers, as far as I can tell. They do celebrate Easter and Christmas but so does everybody else. So religious indoctrination is not the reason I believe there is a God, as is the case with many people today, unfortunately. I think I am smart enough to think for myself and draw my own conclusions.

Now comes the weird part. Apparently I should have all the reasons in the world to accept the "truth" and join the good side, or at least the side where people think outside the box and not just follow commandments blindly. But in order to do that I would have to convince myself that what I believe is not true. Now, believing something and forcing yourself to believe something you want (just because it's more convenient) are two completely different things. I don't have faith in God, which means I don't really expect to be rewarded for my "faith" in him, so the reward argument is out in my case. But, then, if the reward (either short term or long term) is out of the question, what would be left to keep me on this side of the barricades? Nothing! Absolutely nothing. I should be on your side dancing on tables and brandishing my underwear above my head, relieved that I'm not going to spend eternity in a pit of fire as punishment for my alleged sins after all. I bet a lot of people "believe" in God exactly for that reason, because they are afraid. I'm not. As far as I'm concerned God is a combination of a bully and a coward. He can kick your ass anytime he wants, but he doesn't have the guts to talk to you face to face and explain to you why you had to be part of his... whatever he calls it.

So, I don't believe in God because I expect something from him, I don't believe in him because I'm afraid of him, then why the hell do I believe he is out there? Because I have no choice! I have been shown a glimpse of him once, and I can't pretend it never happened. Either accept that or start lying to myself.

Interesting, perhaps we can start a thread and continue this as I find it interesting and as others have said, do not wish to derail this ridiculous thread of nonsense created by COTW. it sounds like you are implying personal experience, and i have some thoughts on that, but in the end, your experience is your experience and no one can tell you different. But there may be a perspective that can help you put it into context....If it is personal experience in which you're suggesting.

For example, Dear great Aunt Bethel is on her death bed, she has been battling cancer now for 14 months...the family gathers around one last time, link hands and say a fervent prayer on her behalf....several hours later she takes a turn for the better, a week later the doctor's claim the cancer may be going into remission...its a miracle. The family is overjoyed and tells everyone god answered their prayers...and no one will be able to tell them different. What they don't understand is it is chance and circumstance on why great Aunt Bethel took a turn for the better, this isnt an indication that prayer works or that their is a caring god. If prayer worked or there was a caring god children wouldnt be born with a terminal disease, like....infantile tay-sachs which took the lives of both my daughters...or sat idly by with his divine thumb buried in his ass while "his people" were marched into the ovens in WW2....or why the billions of prayers uttered everyday go unanswered...the handful that seem to...those personal experiences of gods divine power, are merely chance and circumstance.

Just my musings, I don't purport to know what exactly you are referring too, or what you have gone through.

If you wish to discuss this further, feel free to start a thread if you haven't already. Perhaps I should look first Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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16-02-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
(15-02-2015 09:31 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Regardless of when it begins, the question is where did it come from? That question just hasn't been answered yet.

You say that like it has any merit. Yet, your answer is "god". So tell me, where did "god" come from? Consider And please don't give me the usual "he always existed" cop out unless you're also willing to admit you're a hypocrite.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-02-2015, 03:08 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
OP's argument technique is just to ask questions until someone eventually says "I dunno" and then he's all like "AHA! GOD!!!"... and it's like... seriously dumb. Facepalm

How the fuck do people like this learn to type? I'd have thought they'd have trouble tying their shoelaces.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-02-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: I will debate any atheist on here
wow lol. I lost interest in this thread a long time ago. Is he still going on trying to debate us, or has this just been turned into us making fun of him by now.


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