I wish they cared more.
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19-05-2017, 02:17 PM
I wish they cared more.
So I've been out for about 8 months now. It was bad in the beginning but my wife and I found a new normal. I've spoken with our pastor, a bunch of people at church know, some friends and family as well.

But other than my wife making at attempt at reading then discussing a chapter at a time of case for a creator. No one has even said anything about it. The thing with my wife fell through when we both realized that she isn't a debator and she doesn't seem to want to question her faith.

But she still tells me she prays for me, but anyone else? Nothing.

For all of the sermons about reaching out for god in the community and reachbg the lost. They don't seem interested in trying to save one of their own who fell away.

I am not saying I want to be harassed, but if these people really cared about my eternal soul... Shouldn't they seem to care a bit?
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19-05-2017, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2017 02:35 PM by abaris.)
RE: I wish they cared more.
(19-05-2017 02:17 PM)herrozerro Wrote:  But she still tells me she prays for me, but anyone else? Nothing.

Would you rather they pester you? Or ostracized you? It seems to me they're reacting in an admirable fashion. Leaving you to find your own way. I think that's how it should be, and, without knowing how the react to you, more caring than threaten you with damnation or something on these lines.

I don't know, but it seems to me, with every post you make, that you're not really sure of your decision to leave it all behind. Sure, I live in a different part of the world, where religion, let alone proselytizing, doesn't invade conversations or daily life unless you ask for it, but it seems to me you're the one being in doubt rather than happy with leaving religion behind. I never felt like making a big deal of coming out or something like that. I just stopped going to church when I was 16. It was rather obvious for my parents, but, as I expected, they never even said anything. I was brought up to think for myself, that was always what - especially - my father tought me.

Either way, it's ultimately your decision and I don't think there would be many judging you one way or the other.

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19-05-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: I wish they cared more.
Count your blessings. Tongue

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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19-05-2017, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2017 02:46 PM by jennybee.)
RE: I wish they cared more.
Did you become an atheist for attention or just because you no longer believe? I know that sounds kinda harsh and I don't mean for it to Tongue ...but to me, it sounds like you got off easy.

There are so many people who walk through the TTA door who are in utter pain and misery because they have either been completely ostracized by religious friends and family OR have been browbeaten mercilessly about their atheism by their family and religious community.

If it were me, I would thank FSM that you don't have to deal with any of that and that you have a loving wife who appears to be sticking by your side, despite conflicting beliefs/disbelief.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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19-05-2017, 02:43 PM
RE: I wish they cared more.
I don't have anyone to talk to about anything. Everytime discussion comes back around to anything religions it just gets shut down.

I want real world people to talk to about things! In my other thread you said that a club for only atheists would be boring. I couldn't disagree more! I'd love just to sit down with someone about epistemology, have a frank discussion with a believer about why they believe.

I feel so alone because it seems like I am an untouchable. When I was a believer I would be able to have all of these discussions about young vs old earth creationism, the divinity of Christ, all sorts of things.

But now I'm an unbeliver, topics of faith and belief are just not on the table anymore because I think they are just uncomfortable about talking with an atheist about this stuff.

I have a very active social life, I do have gaming groups, I have professional groups, I have things I'm doing with people. But I have no outlet at all to talk about my stances on god or the lack of god. You may not need that. But I do. The internet and forums like this or Reddit, g+, etc... Are fine. But I want real life relationships with people I can talk to face to face.

So yeah, I might have the opposite problem of a lot of people, I might not be abused or in danger for my life. But isolation can hurt too.
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19-05-2017, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2017 03:00 PM by abaris.)
RE: I wish they cared more.
(19-05-2017 02:43 PM)herrozerro Wrote:  I feel so alone because it seems like I am an untouchable. When I was a believer I would be able to have all of these discussions about young vs old earth creationism, the divinity of Christ, all sorts of things.

First, and foremost. There are as many reasons as there are individuals to doubt religion. In my case it was my upbringing. My father taking me to the museum of natural history, showing me the dinosaur skeletons and pointing out that they are millions and millions of years old. I wasn't even at school back then. And it was science classes, where we learned about the age of the world, the universe and evolution. Not even in the late 60ies, early 70ies, there was something like conflicting theories in our curriculums. Evolution was taught as fact. So, I did the math and came to the conclusion, that the christian god is out of the window, going by anything I knew.

What I want to say with that, it didn't leave a wound in my mind, leaving it behind. I never was very religious in the first place and so I didn't feel the need to talk about it with anyone. I just kept on meeting my circle of friends, and over boozing and girls, religion wasn't a topic. Later on I found different friends and collegues, and religion still wasn't a topic, since there were so many other interesting topics to discuss and things to be experienced.

What I think about your state of mind is this. You're looking for someone confirming your disbelief. I can't speak for you, but that seems to me like looking for an atheist pastor, telling you it's alright. You crave for guidance, and I'm not judging that. But I'd like to encourage you to find your own way as a developping individual. Friends, real friends, can offer you so much more than any club or group centered around an agenda. The real beauty of no longer believing lies in the freedom to be an individual and to develop as such, going by your own values instead of what others tell you they should be.

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19-05-2017, 03:27 PM
RE: I wish they cared more.
(19-05-2017 02:43 PM)herrozerro Wrote:  I don't have anyone to talk to about anything. Everytime discussion comes back around to anything religions it just gets shut down.

I want real world people to talk to about things! In my other thread you said that a club for only atheists would be boring. I couldn't disagree more! I'd love just to sit down with someone about epistemology, have a frank discussion with a believer about why they believe.

I feel so alone because it seems like I am an untouchable. When I was a believer I would be able to have all of these discussions about young vs old earth creationism, the divinity of Christ, all sorts of things.

But now I'm an unbeliver, topics of faith and belief are just not on the table anymore because I think they are just uncomfortable about talking with an atheist about this stuff.

I have a very active social life, I do have gaming groups, I have professional groups, I have things I'm doing with people. But I have no outlet at all to talk about my stances on god or the lack of god. You may not need that. But I do. The internet and forums like this or Reddit, g+, etc... Are fine. But I want real life relationships with people I can talk to face to face.

So yeah, I might have the opposite problem of a lot of people, I might not be abused or in danger for my life. But isolation can hurt too.

I totally get you. When I first came to the realization that I was an atheist, I was hungry for information and avenues of discussion. I had debates with my dad, I spent time on reddit, even more time here on TTA, and I engaged in discussions with my wife (who was always an atheist) and my brother-in-law. All of it was both affirming and gratifying. Religion was such a presence in my mind that having it gone finally was such a new and wonderful thing! And those are the things we WANT to talk about! The new and the wonderful.

So- I'm with you, I totally get it.

And you're not alone in that- lots of atheists want to get together with other atheists just to talk shit about religion and talk about science and other fun related things. That's why there are atheist gatherings (presumably like what the Atheist Experience crew does after each show, they gather at a restaurant with friends and fans to eat and hang out) and conventions. People want to talk about it.

I don't know why you were told an atheist meetup would be boring, that seems like it could be fun, to me. And I think you should start a meetup group for atheists and see if you can get any hits from other local atheists.

Anyhow- don't worry, you're not alone in it. And you might get it out of your system and get to the point where it's all a bit tiresome to talk about. But for now, enjoy it while it lasts and you have the energy for it. That's my opinion. Thumbsup
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19-05-2017, 04:25 PM
RE: I wish they cared more.
(19-05-2017 02:43 PM)herrozerro Wrote:  But I have no outlet at all to talk about my stances on god or the lack of god.

What are we, chopped liver?

Hobo
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19-05-2017, 04:27 PM
RE: I wish they cared more.
I am late coming in on this scenario.

Do you feel as if they are treating you like a kid who is "just going through a phase" and will finally find your way back to God?

The mind of xians is complicated. They think things like, "God is not done with you." "God is letting you go so that you will find your way back yourself." "God has a plan and this is part of it."

It appears that they believe it is best to leave your "condition" in the hands of their deity. So...you just need to make your own plans on how you will live your life. Get on with what is important to you and important to your marriage. They are letting you do that for whatever reasoning they have...so, go ahead.

The neat thing about being an atheist is that nobody really needs to know and unless we call attention to ourselves for reasons of our own, we can just ignore the sermons and take what we need from the social community of a church.

I get that you felt it was important to announce your choice not to believe and understand that it seemed less than climatic, which hurt your feelings, but what are you going to do? That's the way it is.

This seems like a pretty nice website with diverse peoples and topics. You can debate all you want here. I haven't been to a meet-up because in my neck of the woods, the closest thing to a meet-up is the Unitarian Church in the city and they have become too ....uh, well they are not my cup of tea.

-Jeanne

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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19-05-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: I wish they cared more.
(19-05-2017 04:25 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(19-05-2017 02:43 PM)herrozerro Wrote:  But I have no outlet at all to talk about my stances on god or the lack of god.

What are we, chopped liver?

Hobo

Well the internet is great. And I've done it. I've spent time on r/debateachristian​ and r/debateanatheist, lurked here a bit, and various other online communities. But the very few times I've actually spent time with real people it was cathartic. It just was so good to be in the presence of real life people who shared my beliefs.
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