IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-10-2015, 04:44 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
That's the only right answer to the question.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-10-2015, 04:52 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 04:44 AM)WillemRM Wrote:  That's the only right answer to the question.


But of course, that just gets you to even more uncomfortable questions and inferences.


If god just magicked away all of the evidence it happened, how come he left it in a story book?

If he could just magic everything after the fact, how come he used a flood to drown everyone instead of just instantly and painlessly zapping all of the "evil" and "rebellious" people out of existence?

How come a planet full of animals had to suffer for the mistakes of humans (and ultimately, for the mistake of the god who made them that way)?

Why did he suspend the genetic abnormalities that come from close interbreeding to allow for successful post-flood proliferation, only to then reintroduce those problems that we observe now back into the system?


I could go on, but I digress.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
17-10-2015, 05:34 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the evidence be?
(17-10-2015 04:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(17-10-2015 04:44 AM)WillemRM Wrote:  That's the only right answer to the question.


But of course, that just gets you to even more uncomfortable questions and inferences.


If god just magicked away all of the evidence it happened, how come he left it in a story book?

If he could just magic everything after the fact, how come he used a flood to drown everyone instead of just instantly and painlessly zapping all of the "evil" and "rebellious" people out of existence?

How come a planet full of animals had to suffer for the mistakes of humans (and ultimately, for the mistake of the god who made them that way)?

Why did he suspend the genetic abnormalities that come from close interbreeding to allow for successful post-flood proliferation, only to then reintroduce those problems that we observe now back into the system?


I could go on, but I digress.

It's odd what creationists consider a problem and what they don't. It seems the geological record bothers them, so they focus a lot of their excuse-making on that.

That's just one problem, the population bottleneck problem for every single species was overcome by each of the 17,000 "kinds" as they bifurcated into a thousand different species producing the 17 MILLION species we see today, and every one of these species has viable populations.

They also don't seem to consider how every single plant and fish species survived the flood and seem to flourish within a 4400 year time frame.

Every mass extinction event in the geological record shows it takes life about 15-30 million years to recover from an extinction event.

Not a problem? Not a show stopper?

The execrable Q broke out an excel spreadsheet to show how you simply double population rates and walla! You get full populations today, this is the type of sophistry you run into with reality-deniers.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
17-10-2015, 06:07 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
If the global flood happened as described, we wouldn't be here having this conversation. Wink

[Image: fdyq20.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes LostLocke's post
17-10-2015, 06:11 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
Quote:]If god just magicked away all of the evidence it happened, how come he left it in a story book?
I don' t see what you mean with evidence left in a book. The only thing left is a story


Quote:If he could just magic everything after the fact, how come he used a flood to drown everyone instead of just instantly and painlessly zapping all of the "evil" and "rebellious" people out of existence?
If he could magic before, which he must have done to cause the fact, he can also afterwards. He can always. I suppose a good theist could find an answer, if not he just would refrain to God's mysterious ways. I suppose the people who taught up the story felt a grand global catastrophe more frighting. As the other person explained, they probably had experience with flood catastrophes in the past.

Quote:]How come a planet full of animals had to suffer for the mistakes of humans (and ultimately, for the mistake of the god who made them that way)?
]
I guess the bible writers didn't much care about the animals. If they believe that they can dispose of them as they like by command of God, God can also. It's a superposition of their knowledge that if men create something they can destroy it if it displeases them , god must have this possibility/right to. I have no idea what a creationist might answer to this one. Anyway, humans never cared for the innonce of animals once they were out to kill each other. Collateral damage.

Quote:Why did he suspend the genetic abnormalities that come from close interbreeding to allow for successful post-flood proliferation, only to then reintroduce those problems that we observe now back into the system?
Maybe a creationist would argue that as Adam and Eve were created perfect or as perfecly as possible by the time of Noah this didn't yet pose much of a problem. As the children of Eve can not be perfect this problem will eventually come up. I don't know the exact point of view of creationist on this subject. The people who wrote the bible must have been aware of interbreeding problems o fcourse. But they would have no problem with a magic suspension. If they had no problem with it the first time, why the second time.

My point is that any discussion topic containing arguments that are magical -theistic are pointless . As a global flood as described in the bible can not have happened without , that is it.

I simply thought the "salt argument" that was used at the beginning could be discarded by creationists.
If not, the better for the topic starter.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-10-2015, 06:43 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
[
Quote:quote='WillemRM' pid='879124' dateline='1445083896']
Quote:]If god just magicked away all of the evidence it happened, how come he left it in a story book?
I don' t see what you mean with evidence left in a book. The only thing left is a story

I notice i misunderstood this question answering it. So you mean why would there be a magical story of a God punishing almost everybody except some selected few? To make the descendants of the remaining once feel special I suppose. To boost their self esteem as a people.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-10-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
Why if people here don't believe the fundamental premise of religion, do they even spend so much time trying to debunk what they already believe is not a true story?

So, some people believe in Santa Claus? So what. I mean, seriously. Either this is just a pure fairy tale or it has some connection to a known event, the rising of sea waters after the thawing of glaciers. Why is it so difficult to accept that people 1) make up fictional stories and 2) that stories relationg to real events are passed on through generations, orally.

Who says the "flood" flooded the "whole world". Did anyone back then know what the "whole world" consisted of? No.

So, the whole debate is a dumb idea because you are mocking a story which is likely to be a fictional story about some event that was known about because it was passed down through an oral tradition.

I think what is interesting about it is that there seems to be a "need" to explain something. The writer of the story seems to have a need to explain how any life survived a major flood. If there was no flood, he wouldn't have to set up an elaborate explanation of how anyone survived. That episode in the Bible would just not be there. The fact that a flood is mentioned in the Gilgamesh as well and that there was, in fact, a rising of sea waters, suggests that people were drowned in a major flood, somewhere and that it was a huge an very rapid flood, like a Tsunami or as a result of water breaking through what is now a channel, like the opening to the Mediterranean, or Black Sea.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-10-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 07:00 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  So, some people believe in Santa Claus? So what. I mean, seriously.

When people who believe in Santa Claus gain a great deal of political power and begin to pass laws based on "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" there will be a need to rebut claims of a workshop staffed by elves in the far north.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like unfogged's post
17-10-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
I agree completely with your view on the flood of course. On the other hand, the tread is opened by someone who feels the need to beat creationists on their own ground. Anyone is free to do so or ask help or give advice

And Santa Claus doesn't affect peoples life's and society as much as religion does.
His ambitions are nothing compared with those of a theist God. I can imagine if you have to deal with people who are creationist in real life, or grew up with it, things are not as simple as dealing with Santa Claus.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-10-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the evidence be?
(17-10-2015 07:00 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Why if people here don't believe the fundamental premise of religion, do they even spend so much time trying to debunk what they already believe is not a true story?

So, some people believe in Santa Claus? So what. I mean, seriously. Either this is just a pure fairy tale or it has some connection to a known event, the rising of sea waters after the thawing of glaciers. Why is it so difficult to accept that people 1) make up fictional stories and 2) that stories relationg to real events are passed on through generations, orally.

Who says the "flood" flooded the "whole world". Did anyone back then know what the "whole world" consisted of? No.

So, the whole debate is a dumb idea because you are mocking a story which is likely to be a fictional story about some event that was known about because it was passed down through an oral tradition.

I think what is interesting about it is that there seems to be a "need" to explain something. The writer of the story seems to have a need to explain how any life survived a major flood. If there was no flood, he wouldn't have to set up an elaborate explanation of how anyone survived. That episode in the Bible would just not be there. The fact that a flood is mentioned in the Gilgamesh as well and that there was, in fact, a rising of sea waters, suggests that people were drowned in a major flood, somewhere and that it was a huge an very rapid flood, like a Tsunami or as a result of water breaking through what is now a channel, like the opening to the Mediterranean, or Black Sea.

The whole process of debunking creationists claims creates more skeptics. This is a good thing, also we are beleaguered on this forum with theists that believe these myths, of course we have to respond and respond effectively.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: