IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
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17-10-2015, 06:06 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 12:19 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I think what we know as Christianity has been grafted onto a "horus" worship, a messianic monotheism. There are Christian artefacts which point to that, such as this "Christian" piece at the Louvre: http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/horus-horseback

But don't forget, just the other day, they were "atheists" right. Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-10-2015, 09:01 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2015 09:08 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 06:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-10-2015 12:19 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I think what we know as Christianity has been grafted onto a "horus" worship, a messianic monotheism. There are Christian artefacts which point to that, such as this "Christian" piece at the Louvre: http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/horus-horseback

But don't forget, just the other day, they were "atheists" right. Facepalm

No.

I was illustrating the possibility that the NT was written by Hellenistic thinkers who did not believe in "god" in the same sense that others at the time did. The others I was referring to are those who saw "god" as Horus because they belonged to a cult which, I was hypothesizing, was the target of the New Testament writers. So, actually in a way, you have come at this from a different direction and made my point. Which is also why in Islam Jesus is portrayed as a horseman who will return and slay the false messiah at the gates of Lydda. The New Testament Jesus is the false messiah in Islam because their Isa was not crucified.
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17-10-2015, 09:12 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
What I am saying, Bucky, is that the so-called "Jews" were not the same people as what you now think of as modern day Jews. The Jews of that time were a monotheistic people who worshipped a messianic "Christ" who was the same god as "Karas" or Horus, since they were frome Egypt where that cult was prevalent.
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17-10-2015, 09:23 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 03:17 AM)WillemRM Wrote:  I don't want to spoil the party and I really I hope you can kick my but after reading this comment:

- Any trace of salt will be washed away by the rains of fresh water afterwards
- As the amount of water must have been added by divine intervention - there is not enough water on earth to create a global flood like - it can also disappear with divine intervention.

As the water that was added would have been fresh, the salt would have been diluted.
And even if there was a trace, by salt or anything else- if you assume the material interference of a divinity is possible, he can get rid of those afterwards.

You use your bathtub and you clean it.


I get so tired of this sort of thing. If god wanted to kill everything? Why a flood at all?

I mean he's god right? Why the farce of a flood? Unless he wanted to see living things die slowly and in pain?

It is a rewritten older story composed by even more ancient peoples.

For modern educated people to believe this, they must be complete idiots!

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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17-10-2015, 09:43 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 09:23 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I get so tired of this sort of thing. If god wanted to kill everything? Why a flood at all?

I mean he's god right? Why the farce of a flood? Unless he wanted to see living things die slowly and in pain?

It is a rewritten older story composed by even more ancient peoples.

For modern educated people to believe this, they must be complete idiots!

To be fair, the rainfall would have been 363 inches of rain per hour, in order to cover Mt. Everest in 40 days/nights of rain (that's over 889 cm of rain per hour, for you non-Americans), so they probably would have been killed by the force of the storm, rather than drowning, since the most powerful hurricane ever recorded was roughly 2" of rain per hour.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-10-2015, 11:53 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 09:12 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  What I am saying, Bucky, is that the so-called "Jews" were not the same people as what you now think of as modern day Jews. The Jews of that time were a monotheistic people who worshiped a messianic "Christ" who was the same god as "Karas" or Horus, since they were from Egypt where that cult was prevalent.

I am in no way any type of historian... Or totally knowledgeable in such an area...

But...

Just reading on these boards alone kind of shows me the above is wrong.

Ancient Jews would not and did not venerate anything called Christ.

The ancient Jewish 'enslavement' was not in Egypt but off in some where in Persia. So.. anything linking them to Horus is also a very long stretch.

Am quite happy fro some one better versed in such histories to set things straight, though. Smile
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18-10-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
I know a bit about the Jews. Julian wrote extensively of them. Plus other sources I read over the years.

The only god I am aware they feared and worshiped was Yahweh. Julian actually praised them for it because at least they were faithful to their own god. The xians however had to steal one. And of course later after Julian, so did the Muslims.

Perhaps this is why they have been so hated, because deep down the other groups knew what they had was stolen?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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18-10-2015, 02:17 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(17-10-2015 11:53 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(17-10-2015 09:12 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  What I am saying, Bucky, is that the so-called "Jews" were not the same people as what you now think of as modern day Jews. The Jews of that time were a monotheistic people who worshiped a messianic "Christ" who was the same god as "Karas" or Horus, since they were from Egypt where that cult was prevalent.

I am in no way any type of historian... Or totally knowledgeable in such an area...

But...

Just reading on these boards alone kind of shows me the above is wrong.

Ancient Jews would not and did not venerate anything called Christ.

The ancient Jewish 'enslavement' was not in Egypt but off in some where in Persia. So.. anything linking them to Horus is also a very long stretch.

Am quite happy fro some one better versed in such histories to set things straight, though. Smile

That suggests you accept that the "Jews" were enslaved and that the Old Testament isn't just some kind of propaganda.

Jesus was a "Jew" so we are told and the religion he was part of was expecting a Messiah. There is no doubt at all about that. http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm


"Mashiach: The Messiah
Mashiach (in Hebrew)

• The idea of mashiach (messiah) is an ancient one in Judaism
• The Jewish idea of mashiach is a great human leader like King David, not a savior
• There is much speculation about when the mashiach will come
• The Bible identifies several tasks that the mashiach will accomplish
• Jews do not believe in Jesus because he did not accomplish these tasks
I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the mashiach, and though he may tarry, still I await him every day.
- Principle 12 of Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith
The Messianic Idea in Judaism

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism. It is part of Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith, the minimum requirements of Jewish belief. In the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, recited three times daily, we pray for all of the elements of the coming of the mashiach: ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of Temple service.

Modern scholars suggest that the messianic concept was introduced later in the history of Judaism, during the age of the prophets. They note that the messianic concept is not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the Torah (the first five books of the Bible).

However, traditional Judaism maintains that the messianic idea has always been a part of Judaism. The mashiach is not mentioned explicitly in the Torah, because the Torah was written in terms that all people could understand, and the abstract concept of a distant, spiritual, future reward was beyond the comprehension of some people. However, the Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times.

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

The word "mashiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept. The word "mashiach" will be used throughout this page.

Some gentiles have told me that the term "mashiach" is related to the Hebrew term "moshiah" (savior) because they sound similar, but the similarity is not as strong as it appears to one unfamiliar with Hebrew. The Hebrew word "mashiach" comes from the root Mem-Shin-Chet, which means to paint, smear, or annoint. The word "moshiah" comes from the root Yod-Shin-Ayin, which means to help or save. The only letter these roots have in common is Shin, the most common letter in the Hebrew language. The "m" sound at the beginning of the word moshiah (savior) is a common prefix used to turn a verb into a noun. For example, the verb tzavah (to command) becomes mitzvah (commandment). Saying that "mashiach" is related to "moshiah" is a bit like saying that ring is related to surfing because they both end in "ing."

The Mashiach

The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach.

When Will the Mashiach Come?

There are a wide variety of opinions on the subject of when the mashiach will come. Some of Judaism's greatest minds have cursed those who try to predict the time of the mashiach's coming, because errors in such predictions could cause people to lose faith in the messianic idea or in Judaism itself. This actually happened in the 17th century, when Shabbatai Tzvi claimed to be the mashiach. When Tzvi converted to Islam under threat of death, many Jews converted with him. Nevertheless, this prohibition has not stopped anyone from speculating about the time when the mashiach will come.

Although some scholars believed that G-d has set aside a specific date for the coming of the mashiach, most authority suggests that the conduct of mankind will determine the time of the mashiach's coming. In general, it is believed that the mashiach will come in a time when he is most needed (because the world is so sinful), or in a time when he is most deserved (because the world is so good). For example, each of the following has been suggested as the time when the mashiach will come:

if Israel repented a single day;
if Israel observed a single Shabbat properly;
if Israel observed two Shabbats in a row properly;
in a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty;
in a generation that loses hope;
in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders;
What Will the Mashiach Do?

Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)

The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

Olam Ha-Ba: The Messianic Age

The world after the messiah comes is often referred to in Jewish literature as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come. This term can cause some confusion, because it is also used to refer to a spiritual afterlife. In English, we commonly use the term "messianic age" to refer specifically to the time of the messiah.

Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2:4). Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist. Some authorities suggest that the laws of nature will change, so that predatory beasts will no longer seek prey and agriculture will bring forth supernatural abundance (Isaiah 11:6-11:9). Others, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity.

All of the Jewish people will return from their exile among the nations to their home in Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). The law of the Jubilee will be reinstated.

In the Olam Ha-Ba, the whole world will recognize the Jewish G-d as the only true G-d, and the Jewish religion as the only true religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9). There will be no murder, robbery, competition or jealousy. There will be no sin (Zephaniah 3:13). Sacrifices will continue to be brought in the Temple, but these will be limited to thanksgiving offerings, because there will be no further need for expiatory offerings.

Some gentiles have tried to put an ugly spin on this theology, claiming that Jews plan to force people to convert to our religion, perhaps based on their own religion's history of doing exactly the same thing. That is not at all how Jews understand the messianic age. We believe that in that future time, everyone will simply know what the truth is, in the same way that we know that 2+2=4, and there will no longer be any reason to argue about it. It is much like a situation I witnessed at work once: two computer programmers were arguing loudly and at length about whether it was possible for a user to input data at a certain point in a program. Finally someone pressed a key and they all saw that nothing happened. Now they knew the truth, end of argument. When mashiach comes, theological truths will be equally obvious to mankind, and there will be no reason to argue about it.
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18-10-2015, 02:58 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
At work.

Thank you for the large and informative post.

No, I do not know/believe any such thing. I was mentioning that I have seen different information about certain peoples' archeological history previously on these very pages and that a group of people whom would/might be classified/thought of as Jewish did not, infact, spend time in Egypt but a different country and said evevt was 'redacted' to fit the changing known political powers as the ages rolled by.

No deep claims of knowledge from me. Just pointing out what I'd read/seen.
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18-10-2015, 03:10 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
Yeah, I'd say a great many of us here know a lot about this. I read Josephus too.

What else ya got?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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