IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
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18-10-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
At work.

You do agree that acurate/true archeological science is important though, right Delta Bravo?
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18-10-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
Yes, of course. The problem is that some of it is then used to prop up a particular version of events and we overlook the religious and cultural biases of the archaeologists.

If you read Josephus, who was alive in the first century AD, he says that the Hyksos invaded Egypt several hundred years BC.. right. The Hyksos, if you look them up, venerated a character called Hyk or Haig, who was a big warrior with a bow and arrow. Here is what Wiki says about the Hyksos: Josephus[edit]
In his Against Apion, the 1st-century AD historian Josephus Flavius debates the synchronism between the Biblical account of the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, and two Exodus-like events that the Egyptian historian Manetho apparently mentions. It is difficult to distinguish between what Manetho himself recounted, and how Josephus or Apion interpret him. Josephus identifies the Israelite Exodus with the first exodus mentioned by Manetho, when some 480,000 Hyksos "shepherd kings" (also referred to as just 'shepherds', as 'kings' and as 'captive shepherds' in his discussion of Manetho) left Egypt for Jerusalem.[26] The mention of "Hyksos" identifies this first exodus with the Hyksos period (16th century BC).

So, you go back 2000 years and someone is saying that the Hyksos have come from the area of Canaan, or Syria, to Egypt and then later are expelled. These people become Egyptians so it stands to reason that when they leave, they go back to where they came from and that their old homeland around Judea was always under their rule or the rule of similar folk which is consistent with the archaeology.

But you see this "revisionism" of ancient history taking place on Wikipedia before your very eyes. Jospephus now has to be characterized as perpetrating a false etymology. Then you have this film which just MUST support modern views consistent with modern Jewish views. It's like some kind of concession that Western academia is making to Judaism. I don't get it. It's like we have to listen to this warping of history to give some European Jews who find themselves back in the Middle East a place in history. Arthur Koestler wrote a book called, The Thirteenth Tribe in which he said European Jews came from north of the Black Sea in southern Russian and were Khazar who converted to Judaism. According to his view, European Jews weren't the "Jews" being talked about in the Old Testament. Some people say that the Jews were actually Phoenicians, or ancestors of modern Europeans. But in the "new" world of political correctness, we have to support ideas because they are politically sensitive and important to key political groups and allies. Which is why, on the one hand we support ideas put forward about Judaism and its history to shore up an idea of Jewish descent from Near East peoples of 2000 years ago and why we also support the Saudi's.

It's all BS and it colors the truth according to what is politically expedient.
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18-10-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
Why are we even having this discussion?

I was thinking about a contest between religions. Suppose I am from somewhere in China and have never heard anything about western religions and I go to study in the US. I have three people approach me to sell me their views on religion.

First we have a Christian, and in this case let's just say he is, for the sake of the point I am making, fairly moderate in his views. He says that the core principle of Christianity is that one should do unto others as one would have others do unto you and cites some examples of this from Matthew. It all sounds reasonable and if I accept this I'll be rewarded, maybe, by the god of this religion.

Second, we have a Muslim who says his god condones killing people in his name in certain circumstances, one has to obey, other religions are apostasies and followers can be killed but if I follow it I will have a life after death in which I can have unlimited sex with 72 virgins. Hmmm...odd stuff.

Then, finally, I meet a Jew, who simply says, "You're not Jewish and you can't join".

So, why do I need to have a discussion about the Flood? It is bullshit supporting bullshit.

What is the point of Judaism?
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18-10-2015, 12:10 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(18-10-2015 07:45 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  DB - BuckyBall is an atheist, dontchaknow?

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18-10-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
I think the point I am trying to make in all this is that I come from a family who are descended from people who probably never met anyone Jewish, ever, going back to the year dot. All the OT stuff about them is utterly of no interest to me. I have no interest whatsoever in anything to do with a tribe of people thousands of miles from where my own family have lived since before recorded history.

My interest is in being able to speak and think freely. I have no animus against a people I know nothing of and have nothing to do with so when there is a topic on here which I want to speak freely about and ask questions about, why would anything to do with their cultural history be of any interest to me or influence me in my study of history. Not that I am some kind of history sleuth mind you.

However, if I found out that, for instance, some ethnic group in outer Mongolia had made up a false history of themselves which went against DNA and scientific invetigation, why would I expect people outside that group to swear at me and drown me out because I took a passing interest in it. Yet, that is what we have here, and in the West generally, a subjugation of the truth and scientific enquiry to politics.

I think the more people protest about something, rather than supporting a vigorous analysis and questioning of its veracity, the less likely it is to be true. Archaeology which is based on finding out about some group and into which archaeologists insert comments about a "poor tribe" is going to be a work of politics, not science.
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18-10-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: IF the global flood happened, what would the geological/paleontological evidence be?
(18-10-2015 06:57 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(18-10-2015 06:37 AM)Banjo Wrote:  The god of the Hebrews was bigger than Jupiter, King of the gods???

It is well documented that only Jews worshipped what was at best, a minor god, Yahweh.

You sir need to go out and buy the plays of Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides.

The Romans would also disagree with you.

The gods both existed in their own world but also interacted with humans. I take it you have actually read Homer?

Oh, more plagiarism. Drinking Beverage

The god of these people, whoever they were, was a star sign which we now call Orion:

Orion constellation
It’s a global phenomenon. The Orion constellation is a pattern of stars that is repeated in monuments throughout the ancient world, from Egypt to Mexico, this constellation has been the center of the skies for our ancestors, but why was Orion so important to the ancient civilizations? why are monuments, such as the Pyramids of Egypt mapped in such a way that these constructions mimic the skies?

The whole city of Teotihuacán seems to be aligned astronomically. It is consistently oriented 15 to 25 degrees east of true north, and the front wall of the Pyramid of the Sun is exactly perpendicular to the point on the horizon where the sun sets on the equinoxes. The rest of the ceremonial buildings were laid out at right angles to the Pyramid of the Sun. The Avenue of the Dead points at the setting of the Pleiades.

Another alignment is to the dog star Sirius, sacred to the ancient Egyptians, which has led some to suggest a link between the great pyramids of Egypt and Mexico. Orion, more than a constellation, s global phenomena.

The Orion constellation
Orion is clearly visible in the night sky from November to February. Orion is in the southwest sky if you are in the Northern Hemisphere or the northwestern sky if you are in the Southern Hemisphere. It is best seen between latitudes 85 and -75 degrees. Its right ascension is 5 hours, and its declination is 5 degrees. Alnilam, Mintaka and Alnitak, which form Orion’s belt, are the most prominent stars in the Orion constellation. Betelgeuse, the second brightest star in Orion, establishes the right shoulder of the hunter. Bellatrix serves as Orion’s left shoulder.

The Orion Nebula—a formation of dust, hydrogen, helium and other ionized gases rather than a star—is the middle “star” in Orion’s sword, which hangs off of Orion’s Belt. The Horsehead Nebula is also nearby. Other stars in the constellation include Hatsya, which establishes the tip of Orion’s sword that hangs off the belt, and Meissa, which forms Orion’s head. Saiph serves as Orion’s right knee. Rigel forms the hunter’s left knee.

Orion and the constellation Cygnus and may others ( a northern constellation lying on the plane of the Milky Way. Its name is the Latinized Hellenic (Greek) word for swan. One of the most recognizable constellations of the northern summer and autumn, it features a prominent asterism known as the Northern Cross) have been so important to all of these ancient civilizations and somehow this importance is linked to where we came from and probably where we’re going.

Astronomers usually refer to it as M42 and it is there where stars are being born, so the Orion constellation is one of the most prominent star formations in the night sky and has been revered by ancient cultures around the globe for thousands of years. Named after the Greek demigod Orion in the 8th century B.C., when connected, the stars form the head, shoulders, belt and feet of a man and according to Greek mythology, Orion was a giant born with superhuman abilities, a mighty hunter who killed animals with an unbreakable bronze club. When the Greek hero was eventually slain, he was placed among the stars for eternity. His father was Poseidon.

teotihuacan and orion
Teotihuacan and Orion, in “perfect” alignment. Credit: History Channel
According to Egyptian mythology, the gods descended from the belt of Orion and Sirius– the brightest star in the sky. The ancient Egyptian civilization firmly believed that from Sirius and Orion beings came in the form of humans– Osiris and Isis and they instigated the human race.

Sirius and Orion are critically important because they represent Isis and Osiris, the god and goddess from which all of Egyptian civilization and, ultimately, all of human civilization, supposedly sprang. The ancient Egyptians were very clear and we find evidence in writings that Orion was linked with creation, Orion and Osiris are the same in ancient Egypt and the Egyptians believed that Osiris will return from Orion one day, and not only in Egypt we find tales of “Gods” promising to return and we can find this practically in every culture in antiquity which had the knowledge of somebody who would return one day. The concept that the three pyramids at Giza are in a special alignment of Orion’s Belt is amazing. Why does the Great Pyramid have air shafts that point to Orion? These are just some of the question that– until today, do not have a clear answer.

Star diagramIf we move 500 miles south of Cairo, we will find on a desolate plain in the eastern region of the Sahara Desert the mysterious archaeological site known as Nabta Playa. Discovered by a team of scientists in 1974, researchers believe the stones scattered here were once part of a vast ritual center for an ancient civilization that thrived from 6400 to 3400 B.C., just before the rise of the Egyptians. Nabta Playa is different it wasn’t a settlement. One of the centerpieces is a circle that has been called the “mini Stonehenge of the desert.” For more than three decades, this circular stone structure and its intricate alignment to the stars of the Orion constellation have baffled archaeologists. The builders of Nabta Playa seem to be aware of a level of physics and understandings of mathematics that allowed them to build these structures in relation to the Orion constellation.

Engineer Robert Bauval and astrophysicist Thomas Brophy have studied the configuration of this mysterious monument for more than ten years, in their book Black Genesis they suggest the stone circle is a star-viewing diagram that aligns with the belt stars of Orion at the summer solstice. The calendar circle is this smaller stone arrangement, and the calendar circle represents a diagram that teaches how the sky moves long-term. So what we’re looking at right here is a small mock-up of the actual calendar circle of Nabta Playa.

Oh, more plagiarism. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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