Poll: Are ISIS just another radical sect of Islam, or are they the true representation of Islamic ideology?
Radical sect of Islam
They ARE Islam!
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20-08-2014, 08:16 AM
ISIS
I have been following the ISIS news trail recently and have come to a personal conclusion that ISIS is a perfect representation of Islamic ideology. Commonly I am met with the argument that ISIS are not muslims or that they are just "radical" and do not represent other Muslims. The proposition is rather problematic as the ISIS movement seem to be replicating the same holy war as that of ALL Muslims idol, Mo. This in turn supports the notion that ISIS are the perfect representation of Islam.

The reason I am opening this thread is because I want to know other people's thoughts on ISIS and are they just another radical sect or are they actually the real thing.

Saints live in flames; wise men, next to them.
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20-08-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: ISIS
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

Yes they pull their vile morality out of their holy book YES!

But that is a time frame issue. The only difference between the theocracies of the middle east and Christianity in the west is 200 years of secular law. The west did not become civil because of Christianity but in spite of it.

Even with our secular law you still have right wing Christians trying to turn back the clock on the rights of women and the voting rights of blacks and other minorities. We are a "Christian nation" after all. If our Constitution were suddenly gone, it would not take long for wealthy right wing Christians to backslide into the same barbaric behavior.

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20-08-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 08:16 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  I have been following the ISIS news trail recently and have come to a personal conclusion that ISIS is a perfect representation of Islamic ideology. Commonly I am met with the argument that ISIS are not muslims or that they are just "radical" and do not represent other Muslims. The proposition is rather problematic as the ISIS movement seem to be replicating the same holy war as that of ALL Muslims idol, Mo. This in turn supports the notion that ISIS are the perfect representation of Islam.

The reason I am opening this thread is because I want to know other people's thoughts on ISIS and are they just another radical sect or are they actually the real thing.

You don't need to shout, friend. Wink

Like the Taliban, they interpret Islam in a way that is consistent with their behavior.
Do most Muslims agree with this interpretation? It does not appear so, but far too many do.

I say double down on the bombing of ISIS.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-08-2014, 08:24 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 08:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 08:16 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  I have been following the ISIS news trail recently and have come to a personal conclusion that ISIS is a perfect representation of Islamic ideology. Commonly I am met with the argument that ISIS are not muslims or that they are just "radical" and do not represent other Muslims. The proposition is rather problematic as the ISIS movement seem to be replicating the same holy war as that of ALL Muslims idol, Mo. This in turn supports the notion that ISIS are the perfect representation of Islam.

The reason I am opening this thread is because I want to know other people's thoughts on ISIS and are they just another radical sect or are they actually the real thing.

You don't need to shout, friend. Wink

Like the Taliban, they interpret Islam in a way that is consistent with their behavior.
Do most Muslims agree with this interpretation? It does not appear so, but far too many do.

I say double down on the bombing of ISIS.

You certainly can claim that too much of the climate of the east is poisoned by theocracy, but Christianity once looked like this too. This is what the idea of religion will do no matter what the religion is if it does not have a leash on it.

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20-08-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: ISIS
They're a bit like a violent, Muslim version of the WBC.

They take a very literal interpretation of their faith and holy text, and don't give a damn who they hurt in the process. (I'll give the WBC kudos for doing this in a non-violent way. That, and self-consistency, are the only kudos they'll ever get from me. ISIS doesn't get even that much.)

They do this in contrast to moderates who have by and large downplayed the uncomfortable parts of their religion, giving them softer but less-true-to-text interpretations, or casting them as mere metaphor. That ISIS refuses to do this makes them extreme and radical.

Which is the "true" face of Islam? Um.... how about the one without the flying horse? Wait, there isn't one? Is "none of the above" a valid answer?
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20-08-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: ISIS
Again, the only think preventing WBC from murdering people and arresting them is our Constitution and separation of church and state. You will not rid the world of Islam, but it certainly is not impossible to plant the seeds of secular law there. You know you are on the right track when you see more and more x-Muslim websites and having women in Saudi Arabia defy no driving laws and having the government deem atheists terrorists. The cracks in the east are showing with that and Muslims like Malala speaking out. We do not have to invade their countries to make that change. It will come from within because in our global age of media, they cannot use it themselves without leaks getting in.

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20-08-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: ISIS
So what you're saying is, if I started a religion based on a 1000 page book, containing (I'll choose a random majority) 750 pages of political orders involving how to kill and oppress women and non-Muslims, 250 pages on being slightly tolerant but still passively aggressive towards everyone else, and then go on to only choose to follow the 250 pages of the book, I am still part of that religion? I am not accusing anything here, I'm trying to be open minded, but from what I've read in the Quran and know about Muhammads life, ISIS seem to be the only Muslims actually fulfilling their supposed "sacred duty".

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20-08-2014, 08:42 AM
RE: ISIS
As Ayaan Hirsi Ali said: “There are Muslims who are passive, who don’t all follow the rules of Islam, but there’s really only one Islam, defined as submission to the will of God. There’s nothing moderate about it.”

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20-08-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: ISIS
Anything humans do in a group can become abusive.

Don't think short term, think in terms of evolution. I really get sick of people getting stuck on labels. Now if you think a majority of atheists would automatically lead to no cruelty you are full of shit. I know plenty of atheists who have the same selfish Ayn Rand "fuck you and fuck the poor, I got mine" attitude. The label you hold individual does not automatically make you moral. Our species morality is in us. If you want the east to be pluralistic and civil, then do not presume it will never happen. Muslim Malala and our congressman and Muslim Keith Elleson are examples of pluralism held in their view.

A world with no religion is as much a fucking stupid utopia to chase as it is when they get violent thinking the entire planet will become Muslim. Just as fucking stupid when our right wing Christians think they can take us back to the old days of segregation and women stuck in the role of baby factories. Just as fucking stupid as believing one party rule and the ban on the private sector will solve everything.

The best you are going to get in the world that IS reasonable, and worth working for, is protection of pluralism and dissent and a ban on monopolies of power. But you are not going to set up a utopia yourself because there never has been or ever will be one.

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20-08-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: ISIS
Off topic much

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