ISIS
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04-02-2015, 11:47 PM
RE: ISIS
(04-02-2015 10:09 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(04-02-2015 02:54 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I wanna kill these guys bad.

Not just bombs. I want them to know who killed them, and I want there to be no doubt that they've been outclassed, not just killed via technological superiority.

Ready and waiting for the orders if the politicians and the general public ever decide to pull their fingers out of their asses.

If you are going to do that, try to bring a sword, cut one in half with it for me.

... I get confused who the bad guys are sometimes Dodgy If you've got a rabid dog you don't bloody well play games, you put it down humanely. Humans and retribution Rolleyes It's like it's built into us...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-02-2015, 12:52 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2015 12:57 AM by DLJ.)
RE: ISIS
Scene: Smoking room in an Irish bar at Schiphol airport.
Players: 30 or so burly, (thuggish even) rugged looking gentlemen of various ethnicities - most are vaguely European.
Skynews talking to no one and they are showing us the British newspaper headlines:
Suicidal footballer
Some people who resigned from something
Other stuff ... no one paying any attention...

Noise level like any working man's bar.

One newspaper headline covering ISIS...

...

Total silence swamps the room.

Expression on faces are emotionless ... passive... indescribable in their blankness.

Next headline (from an 'I' paper? Unknown to me) about the archbishop encouraging people to pay their taxes.

So the church pays tax in England now? Who knew?

"That's fucking ironic", I mutter under my breath and conversation restarts around me.

That was some seriously palpable tension (the ISIS silence). Made me shiver

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05-02-2015, 12:55 AM
RE: ISIS
(04-02-2015 11:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-02-2015 10:09 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  If you are going to do that, try to bring a sword, cut one in half with it for me.

... I get confused who the bad guys are sometimes Dodgy If you've got a rabid dog you don't bloody well play games, you put it down humanely. Humans and retribution Rolleyes It's like it's built into us...

Yea because it's a dog, an animal. You assume that these cunts are privileged enough to be considered animals or humans, they're not.

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05-02-2015, 02:18 AM
RE: ISIS
(05-02-2015 12:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(04-02-2015 11:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... I get confused who the bad guys are sometimes Dodgy If you've got a rabid dog you don't bloody well play games, you put it down humanely. Humans and retribution Rolleyes It's like it's built into us...

Yea because it's a dog, an animal. You assume that these cunts are privileged enough to be considered animals or humans, they're not.

... War is always easily justified if you consider the other side to be not human. When Hannibal invaded Italy the Romans spread rumours that his soldiers ate human flesh and so forth... The difference this time is that it's not rumour - ISIS are revelling in their barbarism. But still... to take delight in the idea of another human feeling pain, no matter how vile... to me... it shows we still have a lot of evolving to do if we ever want to deserve the title "civilised".

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-02-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: ISIS
Quote:War is always easily justified if you consider the other side to be not human.

And it's easily condemned when you put far too much weight on "all life is sacred".

Quote:But still... to take delight in the idea of another human feeling pain, no matter how vile... to me... it shows we still have a lot of evolving to do if we ever want to deserve the title "civilised".

What is the purpose of gaining this "civilized" title you speak of? And why do we even want it?
Because if your definition of "civilized" is not to kill these cunts brutally and slowly with a butter knife than I'm more than happy to be "uncivilized".

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05-02-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: ISIS
(05-02-2015 07:58 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because if your definition of "civilized" is not to kill these cunts brutally and slowly with a butter knife than I'm more than happy to be "uncivilized".

Would you burn one of them alive?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-02-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: ISIS
(04-02-2015 05:12 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(04-02-2015 04:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  If that is their intent and they get it, they won't survive it.
Well, if we help them recruit by supporting a West vs Islam war it would be an un-winnable war for the West.
1. The "West" would be up against many Arab nations, including chemical and possibly nuclear weapons.
2. Nuking them would have massive collateral as there are many non Islamic people whom don't support ISIS within those countries. Let alone the fallout issues with Africa and Europe so close.
3. Most countries around the world have a significant amount of Muslims within their own borders. You could round them up, but that is drastic Nazi styled warfare.

To "win" this, we need to win the political side of it. Many Muslims are very easily swayed into an anti-West position. Jordon executing a Muslim woman is helping ISIS to recruit.

I think that the more public and horrific ISIS get with regards to trying to incite the West, it shows that they are desperate. It is evidence of the death throws of ISIS already losing their cause. The West need to keep their heads above the waters, they need to keep focusing on targeting leaders, targeting stifling financial resources, they need to somehow reduce ISIS' ability to recruit rather than to increase that (which is what further occupation, invasion and combat would achieve).

You make a cogent argument. Drinking Beverage

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05-02-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: ISIS
(05-02-2015 08:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-02-2015 07:58 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because if your definition of "civilized" is not to kill these cunts brutally and slowly with a butter knife than I'm more than happy to be "uncivilized".

Would you burn one of them alive?

And pollute the atmosphere? I think not good sir.

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05-02-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: ISIS
(05-02-2015 09:21 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(05-02-2015 08:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  Would you burn one of them alive?

And pollute the atmosphere? I think not good sir.

You get my point though? If your answer when put on trial for war crimes was "they started it"... it's hardly... convincing is it? If you condemn this shit then you can't turn around and advocate using the same kind of torture on the guys who did the dirty deeds, no matter how satisfying it would be, because as soon as you do that... the distinction between the good guy and the bad guy becomes simply who was the winner, there *is* no other difference.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-02-2015, 09:55 AM
RE: ISIS
(05-02-2015 09:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-02-2015 09:21 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  And pollute the atmosphere? I think not good sir.

You get my point though? If your answer when put on trial for war crimes was "they started it"... it's hardly... convincing is it? If you condemn this shit then you can't turn around and advocate using the same kind of torture on the guys who did the dirty deeds, no matter how satisfying it would be, because as soon as you do that... the distinction between the good guy and the bad guy becomes simply who was the winner, there *is* no other difference.

Except for who started it. In game theory this is called "tit for tat".

One can be concerned with holding the moral high ground or one can act to counter the opponent's behavior. The highest good would be to accomplish both.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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