ISIS fighters return to UK
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08-09-2014, 07:22 AM
ISIS fighters return to UK
So apparently, all of the British Muslims that left the UK to go and wage jihad in the middle east are being granted permission to return home to Britain with the exception of having to attend deradicalization classes. This kick in the balls is furthered by the fact that the classes are headed by more Muslim clergymen.

So there is a good chance I will pass by somebody who has been known to behead and murder and rape women children and men in the middle east on the streets of Britain. The Useful Idiots are at it again! Somebody please tell me there is any reasoning within this because as far as I see, my country is full up fearful idiots. I'm shaking with anger today!!

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08-09-2014, 07:27 AM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
Does the UK have a prison shortage or something?

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08-09-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
Awful yes but have they in fact broken any law?


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08-09-2014, 07:48 AM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
On the contrary, we have overflowing prison populations that are rife with radicalisation at the moment thanks, in part, a prison service stretched extremely thin by cuts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27371345 (only a short article but there's a lot of reports including official government stats on it).

I have to sigh, ultimately, at the allowance of these people to return. IS is listed as an illegal organisation by the UK and as such any affiliation to them (giving money, fighting with them) is illegal (vocally supporting them isn't, however) https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy..._final.pdf

There is a question over whether the UK govt' could legally revoke their passports. A lot of commentators where saying you can't but actually, technically, the UK government could. For the world cup known and prosecuted football hooligans had their passports and travel rights restricted effectively banning them leaving the country.

The UN convention on the reduction of statelessness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_...elessness) does allow for passports and citizenship to be revoked if the individuals in questions are deemed to be a threat to the state's security. It's a debatable point as the convention is entirely subjective: http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4bbf387d2.pdf

Quote:However, the Office
has never clearly defined what de facto statelessness is, nor what the legal and operational
responses to de facto statelessness should be. In this respect, it should be noted that whereas
an international treaty regime has been developed for addressing problems of de jure
statelessness – including most notably the 1954 and 1961 Statelessness Conventions – there
is no such legally binding regime at the global level for de facto stateless persons who are not
refugees.5
(Direct quote, formatting needed).

There's room for interpretation, but there is certainly a possibility that their passports and their citizenship can be revoked. These fighters, as above, would be labelled as de facto stateless which, if the above interpretation is taken as given, would mean there is scope within the convention to make them as such. Paradoxically perhaps, that could almost in turn legitimise the "IS" as presumably the guys who have out there to fight would identify with the IS as their new 'nation state' (if that were possible). Whilst obviously IS is not recognised as anything other than a terrorist organisation, it doesn't stop them identifying it as a legitimate state. Of course, legitimacy is an act in crowd approval so, go figure where that would leave the legal position.

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08-09-2014, 08:34 AM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
Wow. Thanks for that, I'm not very educated in politics so you've shed the light on the situation for me. It still angers me that people are allowed to commit such atrocities. I would introduce a system that is in effect in the US with sex offenders. Knowing if one lives in your neighborhood etc etc.

One positive thing about this I think is that they will be watched and monitored by the authorities 24/7 and from this may actually give away vital information and such.

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08-09-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
(08-09-2014 08:34 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Wow. Thanks for that, I'm not very educated in politics so you've shed the light on the situation for me. It still angers me that people are allowed to commit such atrocities. I would introduce a system that is in effect in the US with sex offenders. Knowing if one lives in your neighborhood etc etc.

One positive thing about this I think is that they will be watched and monitored by the authorities 24/7 and from this may actually give away vital information and such.

NP man. My post is pretty parsimonious relative to the debate that will rage for quite some time on this issue. It's a legal quagmire and if the government brings any sort of legislation or enforces a removal you'll see it go through the courts for years to come.

Some further issues that were brought up regarding letting people come back that confuses the debate include whether or not people actually fought with IS, or for another organisation, or didn't fight at all. There's very little intel (to nothing) on what people have done over there so it's almost impossible to place blame beyond reasonable doubt.

Further issue which actually is more of a concern is that organisations like Mi5 have already admitted they don't have the resources both to identify all those that have gone and/or come back or to track them even if they did:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27968963

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08-09-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
They should be charged with war crimes and executed.

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08-09-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
So, let's say, a guy is radicalised by his (or her) cult and goes off to fight the good fight...

... not long there discovers that they had been deceived into supporting barbaric tribalism and sees the light.

... wants to return to expose the reality of what is going on.

I say, yes, bring them home on business class and put them in front of a class of children.

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08-09-2014, 03:14 PM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
(08-09-2014 01:58 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  They should be charged with war crimes and executed.

Oh yeah because you know what'll really help the situation?

More martyrs...

Dodgy


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08-09-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: ISIS fighters return to UK
(08-09-2014 03:14 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 01:58 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  They should be charged with war crimes and executed.

Oh yeah because you know what'll really help the situation?

More martyrs...

Dodgy

Well, ya got to give 'em a fair trial before executing 'em. Yes

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