Poll: Are ISIS just another radical sect of Islam, or are they the true representation of Islamic ideology?
Radical sect of Islam
They ARE Islam!
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20-08-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 08:58 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Off topic much
Not off topic at all. ISIS is a group. A sect of a larger group based on the same book that even within the same label do not agree on.

Christianity once looked like Isis as a majority. It too was violent and also has different sects even today that do not agree. And all the sects of Christianity have the same book and same god.

Secular law put it on a leash. But that does not make that leash a given. The only thing that maintains that secular leash is to make sure it stays put long term.
Now again. You are stuck on one label in one period of time. The truth of our evolution is that we always group, and we far too often see the other group as our enemy. Civil common law allows for differences without getting violent.

Now if you seriously think force will fix the middle east show me proof, because what I have seen from our meddling it has made things worse. If change is to happen over there it is going to come from within. Just like it did with Christianity.

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20-08-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: ISIS
I said off topic because you are assuming and putting words in my mouth I never said. I agree with everything you just said the only thing I would argue is that Christianity was a reformation of the Old Testament mainly, it contained many many peaceful loving scriptures (more than the Quran). But of course religion always leads to war and violence anyway, like anything that can be disagreed with. Christianity had a reformation, which made it possible to integrate with society and actually exist with other cultures, just as the Jews had been forced to do other many centuries. (For opinions sake, I think this is what Islam needs to be able to integrate with other societies peacefully, but they do not have a transcending figure such as a pope. This creates difficulties and a narrowing of the problem to mainly forceful means.)

I'm not very good at English even though it's my first language, my excuse are that I'm from Yorkshire and I skived most of high-school lol. So let me try and put my train of though on this in a simple way.

Muslims are followers of Islam. If you follow Islam you are meant to adhere to its commands and rules. It's commands and rules include murder of apostates, non-Muslims and oppression of women. Therefore if you do not adhere to these rules, you are not a fully practicing Muslim. ISIS are practicing Muhammads actions and following out the orders from the Quran. Therefore in my view, ISIS are the more perfect Muslim than the so-called "moderate". Even the president of Turkey said something similar recently, when Turkey was referred to by I think John Kerry as "a moderate Islamic nation", Erdogan replied, "There is no moderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that is it".

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20-08-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: ISIS
NO I AM NOT PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH

I was warning you not to get stuck.on one label in one period of time. Christianity once looked like the middle east . Yes go after ISIS, yes, say that they base their vile concepts on the Koran. But again, Islam was not the first to be barbaric, nor the first religion for that matter, nor the first group to stupidly claim that everything in reality came from their fictional sky hero.

If that is too hard for you to understand then I cannot help you.

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20-08-2014, 09:29 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 09:06 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Now if you seriously think force will fix the middle east show me proof, because what I have seen from our meddling it has made things worse. If change is to happen over there it is going to come from within. Just like it did with Christianity.

I don't claim violence will fix the Middle East's problems, just that bombing ISIS into oblivion will protect people from them.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-08-2014, 09:34 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 09:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 09:06 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Now if you seriously think force will fix the middle east show me proof, because what I have seen from our meddling it has made things worse. If change is to happen over there it is going to come from within. Just like it did with Christianity.

I don't claim violence will fix the Middle East's problems, just that bombing ISIS into oblivion will protect people from them.

Oh don't get me wrong, some people cannot be reasoned with. But I always like to take the time to warn people not to get stuck on one label or one period of time. Evolution always produces delusional people and or groups of delusional people who will get violent based on those delusions.

So yea, bomb the fuck out of ISIS, but I am not willing to put Malala or Keith Elleson in that same group merely because they share the same religion.

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20-08-2014, 09:36 AM
RE: ISIS
Oh I see what you're doing. You're one of THEM types of people. "you can't criticise Islam when other religions have done bad things too!!! *spit spit* Islamophobia! *Spit spit* Crusades!!!". Go away. I don't have time for ignorant people like you. Too many people are scared shitless of being outspoken that they defend Islam by bringing up the bad things about other religions. It happens all the time. Over here in Britain it's just fricking terrible, you can not criticise Islam without being an ignorant bigot zionist. I'm against ALL RELIGION. The reason I talk about ISIS and Islam is because they are in their death throws NOW. Christianity and Judaism have been through their boiling point. Good day to you sir.

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20-08-2014, 09:37 AM
RE: ISIS
Again, when I insult Islam the ideology, I am not saying people like Keith Elleson or Malala are bad people, because I'm not saying all Muslims are bad people. Stop reading what you want and start reading what is stated.

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20-08-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 09:34 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 09:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  I don't claim violence will fix the Middle East's problems, just that bombing ISIS into oblivion will protect people from them.

Oh don't get me wrong, some people cannot be reasoned with. But I always like to take the time to warn people not to get stuck on one label or one period of time. Evolution always produces delusional people and or groups of delusional people who will get violent based on those delusions.

So yea, bomb the fuck out of ISIS, but I am not willing to put Malala or Keith Elleson in that same group merely because they share the same religion.

Nor am I, however it is debatable whether they actually share the same religion.
It would appear to be the same in name only.

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20-08-2014, 09:39 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2014 11:25 AM by Chas.)
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 09:37 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Again, when I insult Islam the ideology, I am not saying people like Keith Elleson or Malala are bad people, because I'm not saying all Muslims are bad people. Stop reading what you want and start reading what is stated.

I think you and Brian are misunderstanding each other and are actually in basic agreement. Consider

Well, I was wrong, I guess. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-08-2014, 09:40 AM
RE: ISIS
(20-08-2014 08:16 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  I have been following the ISIS news trail recently and have come to a personal conclusion that ISIS is a perfect representation of Islamic ideology. Commonly I am met with the argument that ISIS are not muslims or that they are just "radical" and do not represent other Muslims. The proposition is rather problematic as the ISIS movement seem to be replicating the same holy war as that of ALL Muslims idol, Mo. This in turn supports the notion that ISIS are the perfect representation of Islam.

The reason I am opening this thread is because I want to know other people's thoughts on ISIS and are they just another radical sect or are they actually the real thing.

Who are the better representatives of Christianity? Is it the Roman Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Evangelicals, or the Westboro Baptists? Who has the more accurate interpretation? Who represents more people? Who is more Christ like?

Is hatred of the WBC or the pedofelia of the RCC a accurate reflection of Christianity as a whole?

I'm more concerned with whether or not ISIS are a fundamental threat to us, not whether or not they 'represent' the consensus of Islam (and considering that their victims are mostly other Muslims, one has to wonder).

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