ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
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28-10-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 10:31 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 10:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  He is insuring against a worst-case scenario.


His point is that the mechanisms of exercising those rights are fundamentally protected from subversion by the powerful by arms.

"He is insuring against a worst-case scenario.

So are people prepping for a zombie apocalypse. That doesn't make it realistic or likely

While his estimate of the likelihood of a breakdown in society may be unrealistically high,
your estimate of the likelihood of a breakdown in society seems unrealistically low.

Quote:"His point is that the mechanisms of exercising those rights are fundamentally protected from subversion by the powerful by arms."

Bullshit. Our rights do not exist because the American people can get guns.

I didn't say they were. I said they are protected by the people being a formidable force because they are armed.

Quote:^on the above point, would our other rights cease to exist if guns did?

Eventually. Drinking Beverage

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28-10-2015, 03:19 PM (This post was last modified: 28-10-2015 03:26 PM by Chas.)
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 11:01 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 10:20 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Power does not come from the people voting.

Power comes out the barrel of a gun.

If you don't believe that, you'd best get religion and pray that you never find out otherwise.

Look at history. EVERY instance of major change of government ultimately came down to direct force and action by armed men.

Totally wrong.

Power comes from the people. They don't need guns. If people stopped working and stopped paying taxes then society would not function. Governments are nothing without a functioning society.

Sure the governments can use force and guns to try bending the people to their will but they can't kill them all and they ultimately make the problem worse by doing so because they lose the moral high ground.

I don't remember Gandi ever brandishing a gun when India was occupied by the British.

The North Korean people must really like living under totalitarianism. Consider

Or are they just cowards? Or just ground down by malnutrition and terror?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2015, 03:59 PM
ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 10:31 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "He is insuring against a worst-case scenario.

So are people prepping for a zombie apocalypse. That doesn't make it realistic or likely

While his estimate of the likelihood of a breakdown in society may be unrealistically high,
your estimate of the likelihood of a breakdown in society seems unrealistically low.

Quote:"His point is that the mechanisms of exercising those rights are fundamentally protected from subversion by the powerful by arms."

Bullshit. Our rights do not exist because the American people can get guns.

I didn't say they were. I said they are protected by the people being a formidable force because they are armed.

Quote:^on the above point, would our other rights cease to exist if guns did?

Eventually. Drinking Beverage

Facepalm

The notion that without our guns, our other rights would go away is too much conspiracy whoo for me. I tried to leave all that nonsensical "logic" behind when I abandoned religion.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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28-10-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 03:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  While his estimate of the likelihood of a breakdown in society may be unrealistically high,
your estimate of the likelihood of a breakdown in society seems unrealistically low.


I didn't say they were. I said they are protected by the people being a formidable force because they are armed.


Eventually. Drinking Beverage

Facepalm

The notion that without our guns, our other rights would go away is too much conspiracy whoo for me. I tried to leave all that nonsensical "logic" behind when I abandoned religion.

There isn't a totalitarian regime that allows its private citizens to have arms. I wonder why that is. Consider

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28-10-2015, 04:14 PM
ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 03:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Facepalm

The notion that without our guns, our other rights would go away is too much conspiracy whoo for me. I tried to leave all that nonsensical "logic" behind when I abandoned religion.

There isn't a totalitarian regime that allows its private citizens to have arms. I wonder why that is. Consider

I wonder if we live in a totalitarian regime or a democratically elected self-governing state?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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28-10-2015, 04:15 PM
ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
I mean for fuck's sake. Think about what you're implying.

Americans who govern themselves will disarm themselves and then elect a fascist dictator who will (somehow) circumvent the checks and balances of our government to install a totalitarian regime.


Yeah, totally realistic Drinking Beverage

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28-10-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(27-10-2015 08:00 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Many 'now wish they had a 2nd Amendment'.
http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/10/islamic-in...-for-guns/
Quote:Islamists are promising: "We will cut the heads off unbelieving dogs even in Europe."

You do realize that World Net Daily is a satirical conspiracy site.

(27-10-2015 08:00 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Even in Australia people are scrambling to get more guns.
Quote:Austrians are arming themselves at record rates in an effort to defend their households against feared attacks from Muslim invaders.

Australia, Austria, you say tomato I say tahmato.

#sigh
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28-10-2015, 08:05 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 04:28 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-10-2015 08:00 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Many 'now wish they had a 2nd Amendment'.
http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/10/islamic-in...-for-guns/

You do realize that World Net Daily is a satirical conspiracy site.

(27-10-2015 08:00 PM)KUSA Wrote:  Even in Australia people are scrambling to get more guns.

Australia, Austria, you say tomato I say tahmato.

I don't think that World Net Daily is satire, unless you're making a joke because they're a conservative editorial.

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28-10-2015, 09:43 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 04:14 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  There isn't a totalitarian regime that allows its private citizens to have arms. I wonder why that is. Consider

I wonder if we live in a totalitarian regime or a democratically elected self-governing state?

Without arms, the likelihood of becoming a totalitarian state is higher.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-10-2015, 12:08 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(28-10-2015 04:14 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(28-10-2015 04:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  There isn't a totalitarian regime that allows its private citizens to have arms. I wonder why that is. Consider

I wonder if we live in a totalitarian regime or a democratically elected self-governing state?

I wonder where our drift is leading?

While some rights have been opened to some people (e.g blacks being guaranteed the vote via abolition of testing, gay-marriage bans being struck down, and so on) on the other hand, we now have "free-speech zones" for party conventions, outside of which one is liable to arrest for public demonstration. We now have a prying, penetrating security state logging and ploughing through our personal phone calls. We have a government content to hold secret hearings for individuals charged with crimes. Whether or not the Founding Fathers would approve or disapprove of these measures is irrelevant; they are obnoxious to most conceptions of a free society.

The continued erosion of our rights, grain by grain, is, to put it mildly, disturbing. I don't think owning a gun can halt that erosion, nor do I think that erosion is the result of a "conspiracy" -- rather, it is bureaucracies doing what they do best, stamping down individuals in the name of "security".

I don't know that there is any answer, but I don't think surrendering yet another right is one of them.
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