ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
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29-10-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 08:35 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:31 PM)RinChi Wrote:  Irrelevant, the possibility of a people's armed revolt against their own government is and always will be the one and only sure way to prevent totalitarianism. The founding fathers knew this, and they stated it many times in a myriad of ways. It is no less true today than it was then. No matter how comfy we get.

The problem is that history as also proven the exact opposite to be true. Armed revolt have created totalitarian regime. One can be scared that small, but organised ad well armed extremist could overthrow a democratic, peaceful regime.

Peaceful is the key word. If those representing the majority were armed and willing to fight as well, and not just the lunatics, the result of an armed rebellion would be more likely to mirror the will of the population as a whole. As it stands, the religious are more represented in private ownership, civilian militias, and government forces. Not a very tactically sound position for us.

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29-10-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 08:35 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:31 PM)RinChi Wrote:  Irrelevant, the possibility of a people's armed revolt against their own government is and always will be the one and only sure way to prevent totalitarianism. The founding fathers knew this, and they stated it many times in a myriad of ways. It is no less true today than it was then. No matter how comfy we get.

The problem is that history as also proven the exact opposite to be true. Armed revolt have created totalitarian regime. One can be scared that small, but organised and well armed extremist could overthrow a democratic, peaceful regime.

The thing is that totalitarianism, as seen historically, is not magically imposed from outside by some external entity. Its roots are within those societies it subverts.

There's nothing to struggle against without people struggling for it.

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29-10-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 08:31 PM)RinChi Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 06:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Your life in a modern developed state is, statistically, the safest anyone's has ever been in all of human history.

Irrelevant, the possibility of a people's armed revolt against their own government is and always will be the one and only sure way to prevent totalitarianism. The founding fathers knew this, and they stated it many times in a myriad of ways. It is no less true today than it was then. No matter how comfy we get.

Totally 100 % false. It's not "the ONLY way to PREVENT totalitarianism". One much more reasonable way is to use the ballot box wisely.

If they "stated that many times and in a myriad of ways, lets see 10 of them.

The fact is the only thing 'armed revolt' would cause today, is anarchy.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-10-2015, 01:24 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 05:52 AM)BnW Wrote:  I don't know the exact demographics, and I won't guess, but slaves in the southern states already outnumbered whites. It wouldn't take much for them to rise up and massacre the whites that subjugated them into slavery. What prevented that from happening were guns, and specifically armed militias. Remember that arms back then were single shot weapons, so a plantation would have to employ a ton of guards to hold back their slaves. It wasn't economic. So, instead, the militias provided security and any slave that said "boo" was dealt with quickly and harshly.

Certainly records were kept on militias being called out for unrest amongst slaves. What data do you have to support this assertion, that militias were kept for that express purpose?
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30-10-2015, 01:44 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2015 01:58 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 06:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  "Original intent" in political texts isn't much more useful than "original intent" in religious texts. At least they're slightly more possible to reform. What might matter is whether the underlying premises of the sentiment persist. Left unsaid in any declaration of rights is that all of the above, whatever they may be, can be and are restricted where deemed necessary in any case.





Rights aren't rights if they can take them away.
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30-10-2015, 01:49 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 08:31 PM)RinChi Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 06:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Your life in a modern developed state is, statistically, the safest anyone's has ever been in all of human history.

Irrelevant, the possibility of a people's armed revolt against their own government is and always will be the one and only sure way to prevent totalitarianism. The founding fathers knew this, and they stated it many times in a myriad of ways. It is no less true today than it was then. No matter how comfy we get.

Armed citizens as only way of preventing dictature? No way. Look to the III Reich - Hitler was popular, authocratic tendencies were common, antisemitism was if not ripe then easy to use in demagogic politics. Such can not be fought with guns; ideas (even despicable ones) can't be killed.

But one must remember that he took power cause elites of Weimar Republic though him simpleton who would be easy to use to further their own ends. He did not took power by force, one time he tried he was crushed. Armed militia aimed to prevent his rule would fare no better against might of the state.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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30-10-2015, 04:28 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 08:31 PM)RinChi Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 06:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Your life in a modern developed state is, statistically, the safest anyone's has ever been in all of human history.

Irrelevant, the possibility of a people's armed revolt against their own government is and always will be the one and only sure way to prevent totalitarianism. The founding fathers knew this, and they stated it many times in a myriad of ways. It is no less true today than it was then. No matter how comfy we get.

Would that imply that the opposite is also true, that unarmed population yields a high probability of a totalitarian regime?

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30-10-2015, 05:17 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 03:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  ...
The Militia was the people. When called upon, they needed to have their own arms - there was no standing army, so the individual right to keep and bear arms was necessary.
...

Implying that now there is a standing army, that right is no longer necessary?

Seems like the aforementioned amendment should be amended in light of this, or is there a plan to sit down the standing army and bring back the militia-model?

Huh

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30-10-2015, 05:45 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 08:51 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 08:35 PM)epronovost Wrote:  The problem is that history as also proven the exact opposite to be true. Armed revolt have created totalitarian regime. One can be scared that small, but organised ad well armed extremist could overthrow a democratic, peaceful regime.

Peaceful is the key word. If those representing the majority were armed and willing to fight as well, and not just the lunatics, the result of an armed rebellion would be more likely to mirror the will of the population as a whole. As it stands, the religious are more represented in private ownership, civilian militias, and government forces. Not a very tactically sound position for us.

The problem with the non peaceful society, is that they can turn totalitarian by themselves. History as also demonstrated that that an overpowering majority has a tendency of having very little respect for its minority. It strengthen extremists mouvements and makes them grow. They will have more ammo to critise «big governement», «police militarisation» and that sort of thing. Remember, for a governement to be successful it requires to be capable of impose its will with force. If its private citizen are armed and organised, it needs to be even more armed and organised else.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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30-10-2015, 06:25 AM
ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 05:17 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 03:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  ...
The Militia was the people. When called upon, they needed to have their own arms - there was no standing army, so the individual right to keep and bear arms was necessary.
...

Implying that now there is a standing army, that right is no longer necessary?

Seems like the aforementioned amendment should be amended in light of this, or is there a plan to sit down the standing army and bring back the militia-model?

Huh

Since we have a standing army and all kinds of government agencies, there is even more need to have an armed population.
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