ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-10-2015, 06:50 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 06:25 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Since we have a standing army and all kinds of government agencies, there is even more need to have an armed population.
Arms race between the government and population?
Doesn`t sound like a great idea.
You make it sound like the government is enemy of the people by default and thus there is a need for the balance of power between the two in order to maintain peace.
What happened with "of the people , by the people, for the people " ?

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Slowminded's post
30-10-2015, 07:05 AM
ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 06:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 06:25 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Since we have a standing army and all kinds of government agencies, there is even more need to have an armed population.
Arms race between the government and population?
Doesn`t sound like a great idea.
You make it sound like the government is enemy of the people by default and thus there is a need for the balance of power between the two in order to maintain peace.
What happened with "of the people , by the people, for the people " ?

The government has the potential to be the enemy of the people. World history proves that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2015, 07:09 AM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2015 07:13 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(29-10-2015 06:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  "Original intent" in political texts isn't much more useful than "original intent" in religious texts. At least they're slightly more possible to reform. What might matter is whether the underlying premises of the sentiment persist. Left unsaid in any declaration of rights is that all of the above, whatever they may be, can be and are restricted where deemed necessary in any case.

"On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

These men knew what they were doing.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
[Image: 25397spaceballs.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 06:25 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 05:17 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Implying that now there is a standing army, that right is no longer necessary?

Seems like the aforementioned amendment should be amended in light of this, or is there a plan to sit down the standing army and bring back the militia-model?

Huh

Since we have a standing army and all kinds of government agencies, there is even more need to have an armed population.

Or better, more accountable government agencies?

Violence isn't the answer, dude. Step away from the ... Tongue

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2015, 07:38 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 07:05 AM)KUSA Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 06:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Arms race between the government and population?
Doesn`t sound like a great idea.
You make it sound like the government is enemy of the people by default and thus there is a need for the balance of power between the two in order to maintain peace.
What happened with "of the people , by the people, for the people " ?

The government has the potential to be the enemy of the people. World history proves that.
Yeah, but it doesn`t happen nearly as often to warrant the approach you are suggesting.
And while we are on what the history can teach us, Tito`s regime in ex Yugoslavia was undoubtedly totalitarian (regardless of not openly using terror against the population), even tho population was heavily armed ( Serbia is second in the world for guns per capita only behind US, and all of the rest of ex YU republics are not far behind) .
On the other hand there is plenty of countries with unarmed population that are in no threat of becoming a totalitarian states.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Slowminded's post
30-10-2015, 07:50 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 07:09 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(29-10-2015 06:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  "Original intent" in political texts isn't much more useful than "original intent" in religious texts. At least they're slightly more possible to reform. What might matter is whether the underlying premises of the sentiment persist. Left unsaid in any declaration of rights is that all of the above, whatever they may be, can be and are restricted where deemed necessary in any case.

"On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

These men knew what they were doing.

Anyone can quote mine anything they want.
(it is ironic to see you take such a quote to support a position, when that quote is taken out of context and does not reflect the original intent of its author - as is plain to demonstrate)

Thomas Jefferson Wrote:The question Whether one generation of men has a right to bind another, seems never to have been started either on this or our side of the water. Yet it is a question of such consequences as not only to merit decision, but place also, among the fundamental principles of every government.
...
On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. ... Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19. years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right.

So there's that.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like cjlr's post
30-10-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 07:38 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  And while we are on what the history can teach us, Tito`s regime in ex Yugoslavia was undoubtedly totalitarian (regardless of not openly using terror against the population), even tho population was heavily armed ( Serbia is second in the world for guns per capita only behind US, and all of the rest of ex YU republics are not far behind) .

I think that sending those who don't agreed with the party line about Stalin to isolation camps could fit criteria of being open terror*.

Though I agree that totalitarian state will hardly care about guns in hand of citizens. It may ban them, but weapons are not deterrent enough.

(30-10-2015 07:38 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  On the other hand there is plenty of countries with unarmed population that are in no threat of becoming a totalitarian states.

Sure. I would say that guns are minor issue at best when one consider how dictatorial regimes come to be.

*I took the info from Božidar Jezernik book Non cogito ergo sum. Arheologija neke šale

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2015, 08:15 AM
ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 07:38 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yeah, but it doesn`t happen nearly as often to warrant the approach you are suggesting.
I simply don't agree with you. I would rather be prepared than be vulnerable.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 08:07 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 07:38 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  And while we are on what the history can teach us, Tito`s regime in ex Yugoslavia was undoubtedly totalitarian (regardless of not openly using terror against the population), even tho population was heavily armed ( Serbia is second in the world for guns per capita only behind US, and all of the rest of ex YU republics are not far behind) .

I think that sending those who don't agreed with the party line about Stalin to isolation camps could fit criteria of being open terror*.

Though I agree that totalitarian state will hardly care about guns in hand of citizens. It may ban them, but weapons are not deterrent enough.

(30-10-2015 07:38 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  On the other hand there is plenty of countries with unarmed population that are in no threat of becoming a totalitarian states.

Sure. I would say that guns are minor issue at best when one consider how dictatorial regimes come to be.

*I took the info from Božidar Jezernik book Non cogito ergo sum. Arheologija neke šale
Goli otok , the isolation camp that you are referring to was closed in 1956 ( while Tito diead in 1980 , still in power ) it had the total of 16.000 political prisoners , of witch only about 400 died, so even tho it is an example of open terror against the population , it is not such a big deal ( considering how totalitarian regimes usually deal with wave makers) in the whole Tito`s reign.
What I meant by "not openly using terror" is that ordinary people not involved in politics for the most part waren`t subjected to any terror from the state.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-10-2015, 08:52 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 08:39 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Goli otok , the isolation camp that you are referring to was closed in 1956 ( while Tito diead in 1980 , still in power ) it had the total of 16.000 political prisoners , of witch only about 400 died, so even tho it is an example of open terror against the population , it is not such a big deal ( considering how totalitarian regimes usually deal with wave makers) in the whole Tito`s reign.
What I meant by "not openly using terror" is that ordinary people not involved in politics for the most part waren`t subjected to any terror from the state.

Official sources state number of 16 731 people being sent to said camp*. According to foreign sources number of people arrested for political reasons could be as high as 300 000**.

There certainly was open terror even if for short time. Though apart from that I don't know much about Tito regime so I won't disagree with your statement about ordinary people not being persecuted.

* Jezernik, Naga wyspa s. 14 of polish edition
**Jezernik, Naga wyspa s. 14, 15 of polish edition

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: