ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
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30-10-2015, 11:23 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 09:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 07:27 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I think Yak is actually sensible about this, myself. I definitely agree with him that any government operation against citizens (however remote though I consider that possibility, which is to say almost in the realm of wolkenkuckkucksheim) would result in geographical fractures and organized resistance.

Having said that, the difficulties facing any insurrectionists would be tall indeed. So you have an armed population? Great. What about ammunition supply, when every man-jack has varying calibers, and armories are vital -- meaning that organized military units will certainly receive assignments to guard them? What about a cohesive doctrine, when you've got a bunch of individualists who are resentful of higher authority? Will they suddenly drop that resentment and swear fealty to an insurrectionist government whose aims may or may not be their own? How would such an insurrectionist state garner income when the Navy would almost certainly remain under Federal control?

The difficulties faced by the Red Dawn crowd are more than tremendous, and usually (as in KUSA's case) clearly not considered ... which is the main reason why I argue that it would fail.

Yak, with his military background, understands (I think) these difficulties better than most. I wouldn't imagine him working on a manifesto as much as working on a plan to keep himself fed, housed, and out of custody.

Many people have thousands of rounds of ammunition on hand and many reload and can supply themselves for quite some time.

I probably have 1500+ rounds of 12 gauge and enough supplies (powder, shot, wads, primers) to make thousands more.

Note: I shoot trap competitively using 100 - 200 shells per week.

No doubt. but time spent reloading is time not spent training as a unit, or operating in the field.

Individual reloading not only impacts unit training and operations, it is very inefficient in terms of resupply. I've no doubt you or Yak could survive on your own in the event of a national meltdown, but I seriously doubt individual reloading improves an army's efficiency, which is at the bottom of this discussion.
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31-10-2015, 01:10 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 07:27 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  ...
the difficulties facing any insurrectionists would be tall indeed.
...
What about a cohesive doctrine, when you've got a bunch of individualists who are resentful of higher authority? Will they suddenly drop that resentment and swear fealty to an insurrectionist government whose aims may or may not be their own? How would such an insurrectionist state garner income when the Navy would almost certainly remain under Federal control?
...

Well, if Syria is anything to go by, they'd also have to contend with the well-funded forces of the Christian State swelled by the ranks of disaffected youth from all over the world and sponsored by Fox Media. And then Putin, continuing his stance of stabilising nationdom, would bomb the fuck out of the rebels.

It's gonna get messy.

Sadcryface

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31-10-2015, 01:17 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(31-10-2015 01:10 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 07:27 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  ...
the difficulties facing any insurrectionists would be tall indeed.
...
What about a cohesive doctrine, when you've got a bunch of individualists who are resentful of higher authority? Will they suddenly drop that resentment and swear fealty to an insurrectionist government whose aims may or may not be their own? How would such an insurrectionist state garner income when the Navy would almost certainly remain under Federal control?
...

Well, if Syria is anything to go by, they'd also have to contend with the well-funded forces of the Christian State swelled by the ranks of disaffected youth from all over the world and sponsored by Fox Media. And then Putin, continuing his stance of stabilising nationdom, would bomb the fuck out of the rebels.

It's gonna get messy.

Sadcryface

I've already accepted that in such a situation, I'd probably have to fake being religious. Just one of many costumes, no different than now.

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31-10-2015, 02:31 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 09:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  300k sounds unrealistic even if counting all the arrests not leading to prison time , but who knows.

To me it does not sound unrealistic and the info is from more than one source. But without more sources I reserve judgement.

(30-10-2015 09:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Most of the people who lived during the Tito`s rule don`t remember it as years of terror. In fact there is some nostalgia for those times among older people .

Rememberig past as better than it was is not unheard of.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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31-10-2015, 04:00 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(31-10-2015 02:31 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 09:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  300k sounds unrealistic even if counting all the arrests not leading to prison time , but who knows.

To me it does not sound unrealistic and the info is from more than one source. But without more sources I reserve judgement.

(30-10-2015 09:22 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Most of the people who lived during the Tito`s rule don`t remember it as years of terror. In fact there is some nostalgia for those times among older people .

Rememberig past as better than it was is not unheard of.
Don`t get me wrong, I don`t defend or praise Tito`s regime in a any way.
Just saying that as far as totalitarian regimes go, Tito`s wasn`t that bad compared to North Korea today or Pol Pot´s Cambodia or Stalin`s Russia.
Still a long way from being good or desirable.

Now, thinking about it Tito`s regime was a classic carrot and stick approach. On one hand you had free education, free health care, better standard of living compared to other eastern block countries, people could travel ...., but ...if you even made a peep against the party you got fucked up instantly.

No doubt he was a shrewd motherfucker.

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31-10-2015, 04:34 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(31-10-2015 04:00 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Don`t get me wrong, I don`t defend or praise Tito`s regime in a any way.
Just saying that as far as totalitarian regimes go, Tito`s wasn`t that bad compared to North Korea today or Pol Pot´s Cambodia or Stalin`s Russia.
Still a long way from being good or desirable.

I'm not saying that you defend it.

(31-10-2015 04:00 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Now, thinking about it Tito`s regime was a classic carrot and stick approach. On one hand you had free education, free health care, better standard of living compared to other eastern block countries, people could travel ...., but ...if you even made a peep against the party you got fucked up instantly.

No doubt he was a shrewd motherfucker.

Such approach is nothing strange, no country would survive stick approach only. Stalin regime while rife with terror gave people new opportunities, Hitler's Germany was genocidal against those who were deemed "lesser race" but good towards Germans. As the saying goes You can build a throne with bayonets, but you can't sit on it for long.

As for Tito being shrewd it's not uncommon. Neither Lenin nor Stalin were dumb. Same with Pol Pot or Hitler.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-11-2015, 10:35 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(30-10-2015 11:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 09:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Many people have thousands of rounds of ammunition on hand and many reload and can supply themselves for quite some time.

I probably have 1500+ rounds of 12 gauge and enough supplies (powder, shot, wads, primers) to make thousands more.

Note: I shoot trap competitively using 100 - 200 shells per week.

No doubt. but time spent reloading is time not spent training as a unit, or operating in the field.

Individual reloading not only impacts unit training and operations, it is very inefficient in terms of resupply. I've no doubt you or Yak could survive on your own in the event of a national meltdown, but I seriously doubt individual reloading improves an army's efficiency, which is at the bottom of this discussion.

Not everyone in a unit is a combatant - some are support, e.g. supply.

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02-11-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(01-11-2015 10:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 11:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  No doubt. but time spent reloading is time not spent training as a unit, or operating in the field.

Individual reloading not only impacts unit training and operations, it is very inefficient in terms of resupply. I've no doubt you or Yak could survive on your own in the event of a national meltdown, but I seriously doubt individual reloading improves an army's efficiency, which is at the bottom of this discussion.

Not everyone in a unit is a combatant - some are support, e.g. supply.

It's all irrelevant.

If a civilian uprising were to occur - it would follow every historical precedence...

An insurrection force NEVER has "central command" or "logistical supplies" as a conventional standing army does. It simply makes do with what it's got - then steals, captures, borrows or otherwise misappropriates everything it needs.....

The Mujahideem never filled out form *DD12334545 in triplicate and filed it through the appropriate chain of command.

They just killed people and took their stuff.


*or whatever the fuck the form number is......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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02-11-2015, 11:24 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 11:28 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
They're starting to regret it now. Even Sweden is figuring out they've made a terrible mistake taking in these refugees.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ugees.html

The takeover of Europe will happen without a shot being fired. Unless the citizens rise up and kick the invaders out, along with the leaders that are allowing it to happen.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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02-11-2015, 01:36 PM
RE: ISLAMIC INVASION PULLS TRIGGER: EUROPE NOW SCRAMBLES FOR GUNS
(01-11-2015 10:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-10-2015 11:23 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  No doubt. but time spent reloading is time not spent training as a unit, or operating in the field.

Individual reloading not only impacts unit training and operations, it is very inefficient in terms of resupply. I've no doubt you or Yak could survive on your own in the event of a national meltdown, but I seriously doubt individual reloading improves an army's efficiency, which is at the bottom of this discussion.

Not everyone in a unit is a combatant - some are support, e.g. supply.

Of course. And the combat value of the unit is assessed accordingly.

That goes for the irregulars they'd be fighting in this hypothetical scenario, as well. And unless those irregulars specialize tasks, I doubt they'll muster the same cmbat efficiency as a comparably-sized unit of regulars.

None of this takes into consideration things like fire support, control of the air, C³I, and so on.
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