ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
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19-12-2011, 01:05 PM
RE: ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
(19-12-2011 11:06 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 10:34 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 09:18 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 01:24 AM)Filox Wrote:  I bought Citroen Xsara 1.4 last year. It had only 26000 km, so that was the main reason why I took it, almost a new car, yet 10 years old. What do you think about the car itself? It is very comfortable, has a rally pedigree, but how durable are they? I already hear some strange noises from front right wheel, probably the shock absorbers, or something there. Oh, it's now on 50000 km, I drive a lot.

I've actually never even seen a Citroen in real life. I suppose I can't help you on that one. But if it runs good and rides nice it's probably okay. Most cars, no matter the make can go a quarter million or more with just regular maintenance.
(17-12-2011 11:11 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  I'm actually in the market for a new ride this spring. I'm planning on trading in a 2006 M3 convertible before it hits 60k miles and during the spring (verts are in higher demand in spring). I'm looking for 2008 M3s in red or black, 6MT preferred, under 40k miles. Any insights into what they go for at auction and what a dealer might have paid for them?

I've found several 2008s on Autotrader for $45k-48k, but that's asking price - if I know what they paid I know how far I might be able to talk them down Tongue

That's too much money. We had a 2006 M5 in Indianapolis Red w/ ~35000 miles on it and it sold for 37,000USD. I would expect them to go for 30-35 at auction depending on condition. An average BMW dealer is going to try and make like 6 or 7 grand on a car like that. If you see them for 45 they probably own it for less than 40.

Just looked it up. Trade value is anywhere from 33000 - 36000. Plus cost of sending it to service, tires, etc. Dealer would probably own a perfect condition 40K mile M3 for about 38000. Don't pay more than 40 (in mint condition) and try to get it for around 37 and go from there. And remember, private sellers always want more money for their car than it's worth. One reason is becasued they are in love it with the car and don't have a salesman there to smack them back into reality. Private party sellers likely haven't done the most recent $400 maintenance, haven't checked brake pads, tires, rotors, etc. Try to buy one from a dealer with a maintenance plan and warranty for under 40 grand and you've got a hell of a deal.

Thanks! I have no intention of buying from a private seller - no recoirse in the event something isn't as advertised... I will aim for <$40k out the door, I don't guess offering $37k on an asking price of $46k would be a horribly insulting lowball offer? Tongue


If they are asking 46 they probably own it for 40 or 41. That seems high to me. Clean retail is 42ish. Don't count on out the door at under 40. Try to get 40 + maintenance plan/warranty + taxes. You'll be out the door with taxes and a warranty at right around retail value. That's the deal I'd try to get. Def look at other locations for better pricing though. For the money they are charging it'd be worth it to get a brand new 1 series M instead.

I know - by out the door I meant final purchase price. Should have figured taxes, etc... I probably wouldn't get the 1 series though... IMO ugly and not a big step up from what I already have (0-60 in 4.7 sec vs. 4.9 sec, 335 HP vs. 333 HP & 3,300 lbs vs. 3500 lbs). I would rather keep my E46, since that'd be the cheapest option Smile I haven't gotten around to visiting dealers yet, but I'm hoping the local dealers aren't as high priced as Autotrader seems to be...

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19-12-2011, 02:17 PM
RE: ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
(19-12-2011 01:05 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 11:06 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 10:34 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  
(19-12-2011 09:18 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 01:24 AM)Filox Wrote:  I bought Citroen Xsara 1.4 last year. It had only 26000 km, so that was the main reason why I took it, almost a new car, yet 10 years old. What do you think about the car itself? It is very comfortable, has a rally pedigree, but how durable are they? I already hear some strange noises from front right wheel, probably the shock absorbers, or something there. Oh, it's now on 50000 km, I drive a lot.

I've actually never even seen a Citroen in real life. I suppose I can't help you on that one. But if it runs good and rides nice it's probably okay. Most cars, no matter the make can go a quarter million or more with just regular maintenance.
(17-12-2011 11:11 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  I'm actually in the market for a new ride this spring. I'm planning on trading in a 2006 M3 convertible before it hits 60k miles and during the spring (verts are in higher demand in spring). I'm looking for 2008 M3s in red or black, 6MT preferred, under 40k miles. Any insights into what they go for at auction and what a dealer might have paid for them?

I've found several 2008s on Autotrader for $45k-48k, but that's asking price - if I know what they paid I know how far I might be able to talk them down Tongue

That's too much money. We had a 2006 M5 in Indianapolis Red w/ ~35000 miles on it and it sold for 37,000USD. I would expect them to go for 30-35 at auction depending on condition. An average BMW dealer is going to try and make like 6 or 7 grand on a car like that. If you see them for 45 they probably own it for less than 40.

Just looked it up. Trade value is anywhere from 33000 - 36000. Plus cost of sending it to service, tires, etc. Dealer would probably own a perfect condition 40K mile M3 for about 38000. Don't pay more than 40 (in mint condition) and try to get it for around 37 and go from there. And remember, private sellers always want more money for their car than it's worth. One reason is becasued they are in love it with the car and don't have a salesman there to smack them back into reality. Private party sellers likely haven't done the most recent $400 maintenance, haven't checked brake pads, tires, rotors, etc. Try to buy one from a dealer with a maintenance plan and warranty for under 40 grand and you've got a hell of a deal.

Thanks! I have no intention of buying from a private seller - no recoirse in the event something isn't as advertised... I will aim for <$40k out the door, I don't guess offering $37k on an asking price of $46k would be a horribly insulting lowball offer? Tongue


If they are asking 46 they probably own it for 40 or 41. That seems high to me. Clean retail is 42ish. Don't count on out the door at under 40. Try to get 40 + maintenance plan/warranty + taxes. You'll be out the door with taxes and a warranty at right around retail value. That's the deal I'd try to get. Def look at other locations for better pricing though. For the money they are charging it'd be worth it to get a brand new 1 series M instead.

I know - by out the door I meant final purchase price. Should have figured taxes, etc... I probably wouldn't get the 1 series though... IMO ugly and not a big step up from what I already have (0-60 in 4.7 sec vs. 4.9 sec, 335 HP vs. 333 HP & 3,300 lbs vs. 3500 lbs). I would rather keep my E46, since that'd be the cheapest option Smile I haven't gotten around to visiting dealers yet, but I'm hoping the local dealers aren't as high priced as Autotrader seems to be...

Just post ITT when you find the one you want. Shoot me a link to the dealer page. I'll book it out with mileage, options, and condition.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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21-12-2011, 01:56 AM
RE: ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
About my car and the noise, you hear a noise only when going over bumps, so I don't think it's the joint, but rather that it's the shock absorbers, or something connected with them. And the faster I go, the less noise I hear, so I just go faster. Smile

So germanyt, you don't have Citroens in USA then? Too bad, there were some Citroen models that are just mindblowing, like my favorite Citroen CX Prestige. I almost bought that car for only 3000E, full leather, full equipment, hydraulics, airplane seats... That is maybe the best car ever made, when you look at the year it was produced and what equipment it had, it's just way out of it's time.

Hahahaha, this is funny, check out what Wikipedia says about this car and USA:

Quote:In 1974, the final nail in the coffin of Citroën selling autos in North America was delivered—the decision by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to prohibit passenger vehicles with height-adjustable suspension. Citroën actually built 1974-model-year cars for the U.S., but was barred from selling them. [7] For many years, Citroën had been running into issues where U.S. design legislation fixed older technologies in place, and prohibited certain engineering innovations not invented here, including items in many automobile designs today, like mineral oil brake fluid, aerodynamic headlights, and directional headlights. The wisdom of these regulations has since been reconsidered and most have been repealed in the light of developing technology.

WTH? They had the most advanced technology at that time, yet USA did not allow that technology?

Now for some fun facts about Citroen and what have they invented... The year is around 1960, 1970...

Adjustable hydro-pneumatic suspension, giving you the best possible comfort and great driving characteristics.
hydraulic brakes, hydraulic gear changing, hydraulic steering wheel (leading to power steering later), lights that follow your steering, first EU car with disk brakes... Basically, everything.

Smile

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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
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21-12-2011, 02:50 PM
RE: ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
(21-12-2011 01:56 AM)Filox Wrote:  About my car and the noise, you hear a noise only when going over bumps, so I don't think it's the joint, but rather that it's the shock absorbers, or something connected with them. And the faster I go, the less noise I hear, so I just go faster. Smile

So germanyt, you don't have Citroens in USA then? Too bad, there were some Citroen models that are just mindblowing, like my favorite Citroen CX Prestige. I almost bought that car for only 3000E, full leather, full equipment, hydraulics, airplane seats... That is maybe the best car ever made, when you look at the year it was produced and what equipment it had, it's just way out of it's time.

Hahahaha, this is funny, check out what Wikipedia says about this car and USA:

Quote:In 1974, the final nail in the coffin of Citroën selling autos in North America was delivered—the decision by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to prohibit passenger vehicles with height-adjustable suspension. Citroën actually built 1974-model-year cars for the U.S., but was barred from selling them. [7] For many years, Citroën had been running into issues where U.S. design legislation fixed older technologies in place, and prohibited certain engineering innovations not invented here, including items in many automobile designs today, like mineral oil brake fluid, aerodynamic headlights, and directional headlights. The wisdom of these regulations has since been reconsidered and most have been repealed in the light of developing technology.

WTH? They had the most advanced technology at that time, yet USA did not allow that technology?

Now for some fun facts about Citroen and what have they invented... The year is around 1960, 1970...

Adjustable hydro-pneumatic suspension, giving you the best possible comfort and great driving characteristics.
hydraulic brakes, hydraulic gear changing, hydraulic steering wheel (leading to power steering later), lights that follow your steering, first EU car with disk brakes... Basically, everything.

Smile


Yep. Never seen a Citroen or Renault. I didn't see a Saab until a couple years ago and saw my first Fiat (500) a few weeks ago.

List of automakers in the US
Ford
Lincoln
Chevrolet
GMC
Buick
Cadillac
Dodge
Jeep
Crysler
BMW
Audi
MB
Porsche
Jaguar
Fiat (recently)
Volvo
VW
Mini
Nissan
Infiniti
Toyota
Lexus
Scion
Mazda
Honda
Acura
Mistubishi
Suzuki
Kia
Hyundai
Subaru
And various exotic (Lambo, Ferarri, Maserati, etc) dealers scattered throughout the country. I might be forgetting a few.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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22-12-2011, 01:48 AM
RE: ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
Woau. There are no Renault and Citroen in the USA? Interesting, do you maybe know why they never invaded that market?

And, what do you say to the (I presume new) Fiat 500? Funny little thing, isn't it? But I like the old one much more.

Saab is suppose to be good for the American market, it is more like the cars you usually have, more "American" than Renault and Citroen.

You missed Mercedes, I know you have them. Smile

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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
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22-12-2011, 08:55 AM
RE: ITT I teach you how to buy and sell cars.
(22-12-2011 01:48 AM)Filox Wrote:  Woau. There are no Renault and Citroen in the USA? Interesting, do you maybe know why they never invaded that market?

And, what do you say to the (I presume new) Fiat 500? Funny little thing, isn't it? But I like the old one much more.

Saab is suppose to be good for the American market, it is more like the cars you usually have, more "American" than Renault and Citroen.

You missed Mercedes, I know you have them. Smile


The Fiat is a flop despite heavy marketting involving near top celebrities. I've never driven one, never would. SAAB is gone forever. They just filed bankruptcy and are dissolving the company if no one steps in to save it. GM restricted the sale of SAAB to a Chinese company because of tech that GM didn't want other manufacturers getting a hold of. And I put Mercedes down as MB.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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