Identifying an Atheist
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31-03-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 01:03 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 09:51 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I guess statistically speaking, mechanical engineers tend to be much more likely to be creationists than other people with degrees in one of the sciences.

Excuse me? How do ME's get that tag?

I've noticed that when someone with a science degree doesn't buy evolution, it's usually an engineer...which doesn't mean engineers usually don't buy into evolution. Maybe there's more of a tendency to see intent behind the appearance of design.
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31-03-2014, 02:02 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 06:47 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Anecdotally, I know quite a few Christians who are very logical when applied to certain things; it's just once you bring up Jesus, they bust out all the special pleading and wishful thinking. Outside of that context, they're extremely logical and rational thinkers.

It's really weird how someone can kind of turn it on and off when they want to (I blame cognitive dissonance on this one). I remember seeing this trend with myself back when I was a struggling believer. I realized that my standards for intellectual honesty became much more lax when discussing religion (well, the religion in which I believed). I bet this is super-common.

That is quite true. There are some very intellectual theists in many areas, but I guess when it comes to Philosophy, it all comes apart. They cannot philosophically look at things that conflict with their religion, and thus they cannot freely think. Whenever you discuss metaphysics with a theist, no matter how intellectual in assessment, they do not seem to inhibit intellectual honesty. Then they come into god of the gaps etc,

I should be more specific, I mean to say discussions involving philosophy. Do you think there's any intellectual theists in the Philosophy branch? I see people like William Lane Craig for example who sometimes argue philosophically, but they are very deceptive and beg the question. They cannot seem to process a universe without a god, and they give fallacious answers.

I think a theist can be decent at philosophy, but never top intellect material. Let's face it, they cannot even consider philosophical possibilities that do not co-inside with their religion. What are your thoughts?

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31-03-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 01:03 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 09:51 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I guess statistically speaking, mechanical engineers tend to be much more likely to be creationists than other people with degrees in one of the sciences.

Excuse me? How do ME's get that tag?

I think I may have over-specified when I should have just said "engineers". It's known as the Salem hypothesis.
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31-03-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(30-03-2014 09:42 PM)southernbelle Wrote:  So yesterday I told my new atheist friend that I'm atheist. She got really excited and told her boyfriend who is also atheist (with my permission as I explained that I unfortunately have to pretend to be religious). Her boyfriend, however, responded by saying that he already knew by how I act. I find this interesting because I still pretend to be Christian whenever I have to. Are there ways of identifying atheists even if they're in the closet? I ask because I'm curious as to how her boyfriend knew without having to be told, and I'd like to know if perhaps there are other people around me who are atheists but just not open about it.

Didn't feel like reading through 5 pages of responses, but here's my answer (as I've identified quite a few atheists and agnostics):
How they talk. Normally an atheist or agnostic is more inquisitive, skeptical and willing to change positions based on evidence. While a theist just talks louder or has the equivalent rebuttle of "yabut Jesus"

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31-03-2014, 02:14 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 01:56 PM)Dean J. Smith Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 01:03 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Excuse me? How do ME's get that tag?

I've noticed that when someone with a science degree doesn't buy evolution, it's usually an engineer...which doesn't mean engineers usually don't buy into evolution. Maybe there's more of a tendency to see intent behind the appearance of design.

(31-03-2014 02:05 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 01:03 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Excuse me? How do ME's get that tag?

I think I may have over-specified when I should have just said "engineers". It's known as the Salem hypothesis.

That is actually odd to me, being an engineer for almost 20 years now I don't know many that fall into the creation camp, not that it comes up often in the work place. I serrious doubt it comes from the engineering education but from the tendancy for engineering to be the science related desciplines that attracts more conservative minded people. There is nothing I recall from my education or training that would lead me to believe in creation.
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31-03-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:14 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 01:56 PM)Dean J. Smith Wrote:  I've noticed that when someone with a science degree doesn't buy evolution, it's usually an engineer...which doesn't mean engineers usually don't buy into evolution. Maybe there's more of a tendency to see intent behind the appearance of design.

(31-03-2014 02:05 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I think I may have over-specified when I should have just said "engineers". It's known as the Salem hypothesis.

That is actually odd to me, being an engineer for almost 20 years now I don't know many that fall into the creation camp, not that it comes up often in the work place. I serrious doubt it comes from the engineering education but from the tendancy for engineering to be the science related desciplines that attracts more conservative minded people. There is nothing I recall from my education or training that would lead me to believe in creation.

It's not that being an engineer leads you to believe in creationism. It's that of all the STEM fields, engineers are the most likely to see an intentional design behind the universe and are therefore more likely to retain creationist beliefs.

The factory I work at has several theist engineers on staff, they mostly all go to the same church. As an IT pro, I've worked with many many different people in many different STEM fields and the only ones that I've found to have a large amount of religious people in it is engineering. I've not once met a theist physicist, chemist, or biologist. I've met very few in the tech fields that were religious. However, out of the current group of engineers I work with about half go to the same church. Consider

This is, of course, only my limited experience on this planet.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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31-03-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:31 PM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 02:14 PM)wazzel Wrote:  That is actually odd to me, being an engineer for almost 20 years now I don't know many that fall into the creation camp, not that it comes up often in the work place. I serrious doubt it comes from the engineering education but from the tendancy for engineering to be the science related desciplines that attracts more conservative minded people. There is nothing I recall from my education or training that would lead me to believe in creation.

It's not that being an engineer leads you to believe in creationism. It's that of all the STEM fields, engineers are the most likely to see an intentional design behind the universe and are therefore more likely to retain creationist beliefs.

The factory I work at has several theist engineers on staff, they mostly all go to the same church. As an IT pro, I've worked with many many different people in many different STEM fields and the only ones that I've found to have a large amount of religious people in it is engineering. I've not once met a theist physicist, chemist, or biologist. I've met very few in the tech fields that were religious. However, out of the current group of engineers I work with about half go to the same church. Consider

This is, of course, only my limited experience on this planet.

Quite possible. Thinking about it I know lots of religious engineers. I was myself until a few years ago. I still think it has more to do with who is attracted to engineering that the engineering training.
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31-03-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
My personal experience is that my beliefs in new-age woo weren't at all challenged while I was doing a computer science degree. It was the same with my friend who believed in astrology. But when I did a masters in artificial life it all came crashing down around me.

So I'd say that it isn't that engineers are more prone to seeing design but that they don't have to consider how naturally occurring systems came about. If they did then being engineers they'd see how crappily they were designed!
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31-03-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(30-03-2014 11:38 PM)Freethought Wrote:  Well for me, I can usually identify if one of my friends is an atheist by really just conversing with them. Usually, people extremely ambitious, and not afraid to voice their opinions on topics (especially of controversy), have the sense to be an atheist.

I say that in the way of how they assess arguments and formulate their opinions. These types of people tend to not be bias, and to argue in a very factual manner, leaving behind personal feelings as they often tend to obscure how you look at things in a reasonable fashion. Keep an eye on how somebody speaks and behaves, and that's a surefire way to know that they're either totally irreligious, or not practicing in all of the nonsensical bogus.

This is something I'm not quite up to speed about and maybe I don't understand the point you are making. While I understand that rational thinking is foremost as an atheist, I find that living exclusively in my head can be counterproductive. For me, part of living in the real world is acknowledging all the different kinds of data that are coming at me, including thoughts, feelings, physical sensations and observations. Are you saying that being strictly "factual" and impersonal is rational? I say this because the fear that I have about communicating with many atheists is that a reliance on "logic" means a person's process and feelings are ignored or even lambasted. This reminds me of the closed-minded screaming preachers of my childhood, which I would like to avoid and also to not be like! Also, can you clarify... if someone is gentle and kind, compassionate, etc., is that a sign they are religious or does it exclude them? What do you mean by "how somebody speaks and behaves" to know they are irreligious? I think atheists can be models of ethical living.
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31-03-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 01:22 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 12:51 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Mathilda? Did I repeat what she said somewhere? Not that that would be a bad thing, but maybe I need to read posts more clearly and not behave like an echo.

I think Full Circle meant to say your name instead. I had previously posted on the thread.

You know you're getting old when...oops, wrong thread Blink

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