Identifying an Atheist
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31-03-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:44 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  My personal experience is that my beliefs in new-age woo weren't at all challenged while I was doing a computer science degree. It was the same with my friend who believed in astrology. But when I did a masters in artificial life it all came crashing down around me.

So I'd say that it isn't that engineers are more prone to seeing design but that they don't have to consider how naturally occurring systems came about. If they did then being engineers they'd see how crappily they were designed!

No kidding, who puts the outlet of a waste treatment facility through a recreational area.
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31-03-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:52 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 02:44 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  My personal experience is that my beliefs in new-age woo weren't at all challenged while I was doing a computer science degree. It was the same with my friend who believed in astrology. But when I did a masters in artificial life it all came crashing down around me.

So I'd say that it isn't that engineers are more prone to seeing design but that they don't have to consider how naturally occurring systems came about. If they did then being engineers they'd see how crappily they were designed!

No kidding, who puts the outlet of a waste treatment facility through a recreational area.

As a civil engineer I see nothing wrong with this idea. Seems like an efficient use of space.
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31-03-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:57 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 02:52 PM)wazzel Wrote:  No kidding, who puts the outlet of a waste treatment facility through a recreational area.

As a civil engineer I see nothing wrong with this idea. Seems like an efficient use of space.

Very funny....target designer....
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31-03-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:44 PM)Karyn Wolfe Wrote:  
(30-03-2014 11:38 PM)Freethought Wrote:  Well for me, I can usually identify if one of my friends is an atheist by really just conversing with them. Usually, people extremely ambitious, and not afraid to voice their opinions on topics (especially of controversy), have the sense to be an atheist.

I say that in the way of how they assess arguments and formulate their opinions. These types of people tend to not be bias, and to argue in a very factual manner, leaving behind personal feelings as they often tend to obscure how you look at things in a reasonable fashion. Keep an eye on how somebody speaks and behaves, and that's a surefire way to know that they're either totally irreligious, or not practicing in all of the nonsensical bogus.

This is something I'm not quite up to speed about and maybe I don't understand the point you are making. While I understand that rational thinking is foremost as an atheist, I find that living exclusively in my head can be counterproductive. For me, part of living in the real world is acknowledging all the different kinds of data that are coming at me, including thoughts, feelings, physical sensations and observations. Are you saying that being strictly "factual" and impersonal is rational? I say this because the fear that I have about communicating with many atheists is that a reliance on "logic" means a person's process and feelings are ignored or even lambasted. This reminds me of the closed-minded screaming preachers of my childhood, which I would like to avoid and also to not be like! Also, can you clarify... if someone is gentle and kind, compassionate, etc., is that a sign they are religious or does it exclude them? What do you mean by "how somebody speaks and behaves" to know they are irreligious? I think atheists can be models of ethical living.


There's more to it than just logic or thinking, or as you seem to allude to, listening to what some Buddhists call "the Drunken Monkey" in ones head. Logic and rationality has to answer to evidence.

Dunno what you mean by a person's "process". Or how you apply "feelings" to this. We of course aren't automatons, and we don't claim to be "Spock-like Vulcans".

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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31-03-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:44 PM)Karyn Wolfe Wrote:  This is something I'm not quite up to speed about and maybe I don't understand the point you are making. While I understand that rational thinking is foremost as an atheist, I find that living exclusively in my head can be counterproductive. For me, part of living in the real world is acknowledging all the different kinds of data that are coming at me, including thoughts, feelings, physical sensations and observations. Are you saying that being strictly "factual" and impersonal is rational? I say this because the fear that I have about communicating with many atheists is that a reliance on "logic" means a person's process and feelings are ignored or even lambasted. This reminds me of the closed-minded screaming preachers of my childhood, which I would like to avoid and also to not be like! Also, can you clarify... if someone is gentle and kind, compassionate, etc., is that a sign they are religious or does it exclude them? What do you mean by "how somebody speaks and behaves" to know they are irreligious? I think atheists can be models of ethical living.

I guess what I mean by that is that facts rule emotion, that you should think more with the brain than the heart. Just thinking with your brain can be counterproductive, you're right, but so can just letting your emotions make your decision. There does need to be a balance, but what I mean by saying how an atheist thinks logically not emotionally is that when it usually comes to thinking involving wishful thinking. Like some religious people will come to the conclusion of a god because they're not using their brain as much as they're using their heart. Of course we can both come to common ground and agree that just because somebody wants there to be a god doesn't make it true, and that determining the existence requires solely using the brain, no ''personal feelings'' will really uncover the truth.

On other things though, there might be instances where you need to put your emotions first and foremost as composed to what is logical, like in a love relationship you might not always think cold and factual but you may do something illogical out of love for someone, etc.

What I meant to say regarding factual thinking was regarding philosophy and what I meant to say regarding on how religious people behave is you'll see how they'll make up their mind (or should I say heart(?) )on topics that require using your brain to find the right conclusion.

If somebody is gentle and kind, to the point that they do not put much thought into anything but just do by their emotions, you'll find people being very self-interested and self-serving because they're just working by their emotions and not using their brain to empathize with other people. This brings me onto my next point which is to say that, and I argue this, by using your brain you CAN think compassionately, so it's not always necessarily an ultimatum between brain or heart. You can't really solely use your heart to conjure profound logical thinking skills, You can however use your brain to realize and understand why one must take emotion into account when processing something. Often seen, the logical choice, especially regarding emotional in take is necessary to bringing all of which you said (feeling, emotional observations) together!

And no, I don't find overly gentle people who mainly think intuitively as a strong sign of someones personal beliefs. Although, in the regard of how somebody acts philosophically, it is extremely easy to see when discussing with a religious people how they are really making choices based off of wishful thinking. "There must be a god", "there must be an afterlife"! Stuff like that is really just using your heart to make decisions because you want it to be true.

I hope I clarified most of your questions. If I haven't please let me know what I should explain further, and I will, gladly! Smile

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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31-03-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
Quote:We of course aren't automatons, and we don't claim to be "Spock-like Vulcans".

And some of us (me) are more "Scotty"

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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31-03-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 02:52 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 02:44 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  My personal experience is that my beliefs in new-age woo weren't at all challenged while I was doing a computer science degree. It was the same with my friend who believed in astrology. But when I did a masters in artificial life it all came crashing down around me.

So I'd say that it isn't that engineers are more prone to seeing design but that they don't have to consider how naturally occurring systems came about. If they did then being engineers they'd see how crappily they were designed!

No kidding, who puts the outlet of a waste treatment facility through a recreational area.

Meh.

Can you do better with a strictly iterative design process?

Tongue

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31-03-2014, 04:54 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
By default I automatically assume all logical/ intelligent people are atheist but recently there has been a boom of disappointment in my neck of the woods as the Christians unveil themselves. My Atheist sensor needs cleaning apparently.
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31-03-2014, 05:09 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
(31-03-2014 03:00 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(31-03-2014 02:57 PM)natachan Wrote:  As a civil engineer I see nothing wrong with this idea. Seems like an efficient use of space.

Very funny....target designer....

Umm, I saw this joke in the "Favourite pictures for a laugh at religion."

[Image: v0jpzpT.png]
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31-03-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: Identifying an Atheist
I thought I was undercover too, but it turned out that the baby recipes I shared on Facebook gave me away.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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