Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
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23-06-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
The data is in.

We've done deregulation and "don't tax the rich" since Reagan and the pay gap has exploded, we've had a bubble every decade, the October crash under Reagan, the dot com in the 90s and Bush Jr's car/bank/housing crash. Every credible major medical association is also saying both the house and Senate Bill on "Trumpcare" will LITERALLY get people killed, not to mention adding to a long term dept which will simply end up with another bubble.

The only thing "trickle down" does is suck the money up to the top.

Climate change is fact and our species is pumping out too much CO2. Evolution is fact as well and we are living under an administration that is dangerously denying and ignoring science in favor of pandering to a bigoted right wing fringe minority.

Our planet cannot afford this bullshit. No I will not coddle the insecurities of people who put profits and greed above global stability.

If you want to make factless bullshit claims, others have the right to call it the bullshit it is.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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23-06-2017, 08:21 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
Wrong quote.
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23-06-2017, 08:24 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 08:08 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-06-2017 07:59 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  But her entire point is that those things are harmful, yes? So if people play those games, they would adopt various beliefs about women they wouldn't have had otherwise.

And your point is... ? Is she not entitled to have an opinion and promote it?

I can't criticize her opinion just because it's an opinion? Consider

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23-06-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 08:12 AM)Emma Wrote:  At least, that's my point of view. I like some games that are problematic. I still love those games even though I recognize parts of it could portray women better, or people of color better, etc.

I just finished playing the Witcher 1. I had sex with basically everyone I could. Two things: 1. there was not a single black guy that I could find in the entire game. 2. Women were represented consistently as sex objects, even the ones who were independent minded. 3. Being a nice guy who didn't fuck anyone wasn't really an option, there's even a point in the game where the narrative basically forces you to be a two timing bastard. 4. There's no such thing as gay people in the game world, far as I could tell. At no point did any male character even make an offer, whereas with the female characters it was always an option it seemed.

That's the kind of thing that I think is actually problematic. It was a hell of a fun game. Story was quite well done etc. But if you're a young black girl not a chance in hell you'll play that game, and if you're a young white male of the right impressionable age you can pick up some shitty attitudes to boot.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-06-2017, 08:26 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 08:24 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(23-06-2017 08:08 AM)morondog Wrote:  And your point is... ? Is she not entitled to have an opinion and promote it?

I can't criticize her opinion just because it's an opinion? Consider

Apologies. I overreacted a bit. I remember the gamergate farce and all the bullshit. People were literally sending her death threats.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-06-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 08:25 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-06-2017 08:12 AM)Emma Wrote:  At least, that's my point of view. I like some games that are problematic. I still love those games even though I recognize parts of it could portray women better, or people of color better, etc.

I just finished playing the Witcher 1. I had sex with basically everyone I could. Two things: 1. there was not a single black guy that I could find in the entire game. 2. Women were represented consistently as sex objects, even the ones who were independent minded. 3. Being a nice guy who didn't fuck anyone wasn't really an option, there's even a point in the game where the narrative basically forces you to be a two timing bastard. 4. There's no such thing as gay people in the game world, far as I could tell. At no point did any male character even make an offer, whereas with the female characters it was always an option it seemed.

That's the kind of thing that I think is actually problematic. It was a hell of a fun game. Story was quite well done etc. But if you're a young black girl not a chance in hell you'll play that game, and if you're a young white male of the right impressionable age you can pick up some shitty attitudes to boot.

I've heard great things about the gameplay and that it's a crazy fun game. I want to try it, but I doubt I'll ever get around to it. Regarding the problems- recognizing that they are problems is critical. They wanted to make this game the way they wanted to make it, and that's totally fine. The real problems occur when the gaming industry as a whole caters to that aspect of gaming and doesn't leave room for other gamers- women, gay people, people of color, etc. I'd personally love it if games like the Witcher took greater pains to ensure that women weren't portrayed simply as min-sex games or rewards or whatever. But someone's going to make that game, so there it is. And they made it super-fun to boot.

That said, Anita isn't looking to take away our Witchers (at least, that's not the impression that I get, and I love to watch her videos), so much as say stuff like: Women want good quality games with heroes that they can relate to. Where they aren't sexualized. Where the male isn't the default (a la Mass Effect 3). Where the characters are third-dimensional. Where the characters are just female versions of men (where writers don't know how to write a woman character so they write basically a guy skin it as a woman). And that are FUN. And I think those things are happening more and more.

I mean, look at Overwatch. That game is amazing fun- it has great characters with fully-fleshed out personalities. Many different body-types for both men and women (and even robots). Many different nationalities. Many different age ranges represented. It's super fun, exciting, etc. And so many women play that game! Still, it's not for everyone- my wife won't play it. I play it all the time, though. I love that for a simple shooter arcade game, they took great care to create characters that are interesting on so many different levels. They even have super-distinct animations in their first-person POV. I admire the effort that they went to on all of their characters. Okay, enough gushing about Overwatch. Laugh out load

And I'm not saying these things are happening in the gaming world because of Sarkeesian by any means. But I am saying that it's because women are pushing for more representation in gaming. We're being more vocal and what we want to see- what we want to BUY- for the love of god, game devs, take our money! Tongue There are more female game devs, story writers, artists, etc, too! And that's fantastic.
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23-06-2017, 09:14 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 08:25 AM)morondog Wrote:  I just finished playing the Witcher 1. I had sex with basically everyone I could. Two things: 1. there was not a single black guy that I could find in the entire game.

Same was with books if I remember correctly. Black people just weren't a thing here, just like Indians or Chinese. Fact that black people exist IRL is not reason enough to put them in world where only mention of something akin to Africa is short sentence about Ophir and men with heads of horses.

Quote:2. Women were represented consistently as sex objects, even the ones who were independent minded.

Apart from saying that I didn't have such impression back then I don't have much to say.

Quote:3. Being a nice guy who didn't fuck anyone wasn't really an option, there's even a point in the game where the narrative basically forces you to be a two timing bastard.

I played it long ago but couldn't you just refuse? I don't remember being forced to being a two timing bastard but quite long time passed since I played.

Quote:4. There's no such thing as gay people in the game world, far as I could tell. At no point did any male character even make an offer, whereas with the female characters it was always an option it seemed.

There was one gay character in Wild Hunt. He was persecuted and might even ended dead if I'm not mistaken. In light of this it seems reasonable that no man would approach Geralt with this kind of offer. Players may know that Geralt is good guy who wouldn't denounce gay man, people in game not really given that he is know as "Butcher of Blavikken".

Quote:That's the kind of thing that I think is actually problematic. It was a hell of a fun game. Story was quite well done etc. But if you're a young black girl not a chance in hell you'll play that game, and if you're a young white male of the right impressionable age you can pick up some shitty attitudes to boot.

I've seen no problem with the game (in the context of your post, loading times were a bitch) nor I see it now. It may have been sexist but it is story of sexist, violent and homophobic society not uplifting utopia.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-06-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
EK - Those videos are amazing. How do you come up with this stuff?!

I noted that #4 is (unintentionally) a pretty damned good analysis of how well-intentioned people among the conservative movement wind up aligning with, and thus supporting indirectly, the Breitbart neo-Nazi propagandists and True Believers™ in white supremacist policies... while still managing to object "But I'm not racist!" loudly to anyone who will listen, and denying that things like structural racism exist. We have a few such people on this forum. Dodgy

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23-06-2017, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2017 09:46 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
Emma - Speaking as a cis white middle class male, I find the arguments of Anita Sarkeesian and the other feminist critics of the gaming industry to be right on point. I enjoy looking at a bikini-clad female as much as anyone, don't get me wrong, but I find under-armored women to be bizarre, since I am well aware of the purpose of armor and am familiar with the use of weaponry in general, and it actually "pulls me out of the Suspension of Disbelief" when I see something so out of place as a woman in armor that amounts to a halter-top.

This is what a woman warrior looks like:

[Image: 7bb4c22c551b70a20f69d217e00332be.jpg]

Lady Brienne of Tarth is The Shiznit™.

The battle between Brienne and The Hound is fantastic cinema.





[Edit to Add: Among its other achievements, Game of Thrones has shown that realistic depictions of interesting-- and powerful in their own diverse ways, without needing to be fake, overpowered tropes-- female characters can be wildly popular.]

It's the same when I see blatant sexism in a game... like the example in the videos EK posted, where the women visiting the prisoners are wearing ridiculously short skirts and apparently no underwear... because I know that many of my female friends are gamers and because I know it reinforces stereotypes of women-as-objects that are harmful to the women I know and/or love, it sickens me. It's the opposite of enhancing the game, for me.

So when it comes to overt harassment of women who simply have the "testicular fortitude" (as my old Sergeant used to say) to point out these problems, especially the threats of violence and the invasion of their privacy, it turns me from merely annoyed at the cliches to outright furious that any gamer or journalist has to put up with such things in this day and age. We're supposed to be better than that!

But as the videos point out, for all the ability of the violent sexists (and their unwitting allies) to push that backlash agenda, the truth is that the tide is turning, just as it has with every other social problem that has been pointed out by brave pioneers who were subject to harassment by those who felt personally attacked by any challenge to the status quo... in the end, enough people realized they had nothing to lose by sharing the power and were disgusted by the actions of the bigots that the culture shifted and the assholes were recognized for what they really were. [Edit to Add: ...and as a result, the bystander allies who had previously aligned with the agenda of the bigots, but no longer wanted to be seen as assholes, wound up abandoning the alliance.]

It's not like white supremacists have gone away because enough white people saw that the Civil Rights Movement was an important idea, and found it a moral obligation to correct the injustice. They're simply relegated, for the most part, to their dark echo chambers while the rest of us get to live in the better world that was made by ending segregation and discrimination. This, too, is happening with women in gaming, and it's a better world for it. But just as we see guys like Steve Bannon rebranding themselves and worming their way into positions of power, we're likely to see "two steps forward, one step back" highs and lows in this particular struggle, too. The tide may shift, but occasional waves will still crash onto the shore. We just have to see that fewer people are hurt, when they do, if we can.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-06-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 09:14 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
Quote:That's the kind of thing that I think is actually problematic. It was a hell of a fun game. Story was quite well done etc. But if you're a young black girl not a chance in hell you'll play that game, and if you're a young white male of the right impressionable age you can pick up some shitty attitudes to boot.

I've seen no problem with the game (in the context of your post, loading times were a bitch) nor I see it now. It may have been sexist but it is story of sexist, violent and homophobic society not uplifting utopia.

I see it as a problem. Sure, it's a story about a violent sexist homophobic world. People from *our* world play that game. It's made for a mass market. Would it really cost so much to put in a few black people? To write a couple of sexually ambiguous characters? To write female characters who don't fuck you at the drop of a hat? Is it that important to be so artistically pure?

I get that the authors chose their path, that's for them to do. It's their work of art. I enjoyed the game. But I don't think this is baseless criticism.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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