Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
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23-06-2017, 12:19 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
I'm certainly not asking for LGBTQ people to appear in stories where they would be just shoed-in. I like having more representation in stories, though, so I hope to see more inclusion in future games and stories.
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23-06-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
BTW, this topic is way better than the original topic of the thread. Tongue Though maybe it ought to be split out into its own thread.
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23-06-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 09:36 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 02:03 PM)Emma Wrote:  A GGer is a GamerGater, as Girly referenced earlier. GGers were infamous for demonizing the term SJW a few years back in their attacks on several women developers/journalists/critics/bloggers/etc. and other "players" in gaming world. Basically, they'd have labeled anyone an SJW who is a feminist and advocate for a series of social causes.

Regardless- as epronovost pointed out- the fringe extreme examples of leftists are simply not respected enough or given enough credence to cause the effect you seem to think.


A crash course on GamerGate for the uninitiated. Just don't mind the puppet, it's his shtick.






A more in depth look at GamerGate, including an autopsy on its origins.
























Thank you for posting these, EK. I'm going back through and watching them again. It's been a couple years since I watched them last. But they are fantastic break-downs of GamerGate. I highly recommend everyone watch them.
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23-06-2017, 12:31 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 12:14 PM)Vera Wrote:  Szuchow, I was talking about books.

I noticed. I just tied it with earlier posts about games.

Quote:And what does "insert" them mean? People of different sexual orientations are part of this world, isn't it more a question of "excluding" such characters in works of fiction than "inserting" them in a world of which they are part?

People of different orientations are part of this world sure. Are they part of every fantasy book ever written? If not then why narrative of game based on one of such books should mention homosexuals?

Quote:It is the exact same thing with black people, who are only introduced for the sake of "diversity", the different ones, not the norm.

I would hardly expect black people in book based partly on Slavic folklore.

Quote:Today is the birthday of Octavia Butler, the first African-American female writer of science fiction. ""When I began writing science fiction, when I began reading, heck, I wasn't in any of this stuff I read," Ms. Butler told The New York Times in 2000. "The only black people you found were occasional characters or characters who were so feeble-witted that they couldn't manage anything, anyway. I wrote myself in, since I'm me and I'm here and I'm writing."

I guess if gay people want to be part of the literature, movie, game culture of this world, they'll just have to write themselves in, eh? Sleepy

They can. I just see no reason for complaining cause one particular author didn't write about them, and one particular dev team followed his example. I don't care about all genre I write in context of Witcher.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-06-2017, 12:39 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 12:31 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I would hardly expect black people in book based partly on Slavic folklore

Wow. Never expected such a dishonest strawman from you. Seriously, you are much better than this.

At least I thought so.

The rest of it... I really don't want to comment. I want to still be able to like you.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-06-2017, 12:47 PM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2017 12:54 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 12:39 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(23-06-2017 12:31 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I would hardly expect black people in book based partly on Slavic folklore

Wow. Never expected such a dishonest strawman from you. Seriously, you are much better than this.

At least I thought so.

I think it's misunderstanding rather than strawman but I still stand by my statement. I don't expect black people in books based on Slavic folklore. Tatars on the other hand... (Ilja Muromec)

And it's quite possible you only thought so, but then I don't remember naming myself good.

Quote:The rest of it... I really don't want to comment. I want to still be able to like you.

I won't silence myself just to being liked. I probably needlessly mentioned Witcher in context of your post about books but what's done is done.

Edit: Though I suppose your beef is with my views not something as trivial as video game. Again however I won't censure myself to gain approval.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-06-2017, 12:53 PM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2017 12:56 PM by Vera.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
What does SLAVIC FOLKLORE have to do with any of this? You just introduced it trying to make (some sort of) a point. A completely ridiculous, over-the-top dishonest one.

Not better as a person (apparently not), more honest in discussion. But hey, I've been wrong before.

Didn't ask you to stop saying lovely things like "I don't mind gayz/blacks, some of my best friends are gayz/black, BUT", I said I won't comment on the rest of it, so please, do not silence yourself. Drinking Beverage

And frankly, I don't give a fuck about stupid video games. Life is too short to waste it on them.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-06-2017, 01:00 PM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2017 01:11 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 12:53 PM)Vera Wrote:  What does SLAVIF FOLKLORE have to do with any of this? You just introduced it trying to make a (some sort of) point. A completely ridiculous, over-the-top dishonest one.

Not better as a person (apparently not), more honest in discussion. But hey, I've wrong before.

Didn't ask you to stop saying lovely things like "I don't mind gayz/blacks, some of my best friends are gayz/black, BUT", said I won't comment on the rest of it, so please, do not silence yourself. Drinking Beverage

And frankly, I don't give a fuck about stupid video games. Life is too short to waste it on them.

Chill maybe and read the thread? Then you may understand. Or not. Drinking Beverage

You "stand" for oppressed minorities by wanting to include them in entertainment works? That's good but meanwhile I will stick to - believe it or not - not being a dick to them and valuing authors freedom to take inspiration from where they want and include whatever content they want.

Edit: And yes I don't mind blacks (couldn't mind them even if I tried given that I've seen black man 3 times in all my life) nor homosexuals. That however is far cry from crying to shoehorn them in certain works of fiction.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-06-2017, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 23-06-2017 01:12 PM by Vera.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(23-06-2017 01:00 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Chill maybe and read the thread? Then you may understand. Or not. Drinking Beverage

You "stand" for oppressed minorities by wanting to include them in entertainment works? That's good but meanwhile I will stick to believe it or not not being a dick to them and valuing authors freedom to take inspiration from where they want.

Chill maybe and read my original post. Then you may understand. Or not. Drinking Beverage

I was talking about ONE book I'm translating and how IT handles this - among other things, like commenting on the current political situation in the US.

YOU rode in with the battlecry of the bigot "I don't mind X people, BUT" (pray tell, what IS there to mind? Do you often say "I don't mind left-handed people" or "I don't mind brown-eyed people"?) and startеа talking about them being inserted everywhere and Black people in Slavic folklore which is something I never said.

So yeah, physician heal thyself and learn to read. Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-06-2017, 01:14 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
I think we can agree on the following.

1) Games, like any other entertainment media can be used to transmit ideas, perceptions and beliefs to their audience. The more complex and involving the story is, the more meaning it as and the more potential it as to transmit ideas, perceptions and beliefs to their audience.

2) Games would be well served by being more diverse, offering more varied stories, with more varied characters (protagonist or not) in more varied settings.

3) Games are a cultural product and as such should be criticised from a socio-cultural point of view. It's important to be capable of recognising and criticising plot devices, tropes and messages as to avoid specific games being turned into propaganda tools for any specific ideology, especially if that said ideology is against the common good (which they totally can).

4) Authors should be capable of writting any story they want in watever way they want, but should be aware and conscious of their impact and their influence on the public. On the other side of the mirror, the public must accept the writters freedom, but are completly free to not like it and say it out loud, or even enjoy their work, have lots of fun and still think that this specific stuff is bad.

5) The gaming industry and ''culture'' should favor diversity and critique instead of formulaic stories and games (which is a pitfall of large studios and escapist audience).

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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