Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
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21-06-2017, 09:14 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 03:24 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 12:09 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  The purpose of a audio conversation (or video) is that I can cover 100 yards verbally that I an cover 1 yard via text.

Sounds like you're relying on a disingenuous argument then if it only works if presented in a certain way. Much like a gish gallop only works at winning a debate people because they don't have time to think about it too much. Except it never actually does work because it never convinces anyone. People just don't get a chance to properly reply.

You know, there's a reason why scientific results are written up as papers and are peer reviewed instead of presentations.

You have called my arguments, or in this case perspective, disingenuous several times in several threads. For what reason do you believe I am being disingenuous? In your mind, is any point of view different from your own "disingenuous"?
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21-06-2017, 09:33 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 09:09 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 08:37 PM)LifelongAtheist Wrote:  No one propelled Trump to victory except the Electoral College. It's certainly possible to debate Hillary's campaign strategy, but she won 2.9 million more votes than Trump did. I think that must be taken into account in discussions like this.

Right. That's why our history is littered with Trump like presidencies for hundreds of years. The Electoral College is a Trump-producing machine.

A lot of parallels between president Trump and Andrew Jackson.
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21-06-2017, 09:38 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 03:17 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  The left did not propel Trump to victory, Trump voters did. You see many countries a have a system called a democracy whereby voters have a single vote each, they are all counted up with each candidate trying to get as many votes as possible.

Well...yes and no. Of course Trump riled up his base, but there were a fair number of Obama voters who switched to Trump in the states he flipped to the GOP.

Clinton was just a crappy candidate. Maybe she shouldn't have tried to pick up conservative states and focus a little more time on wining the states that were close--and she lost.
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21-06-2017, 09:45 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2017 10:17 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I think we may disagree on our assessment on the effect, or more precisely the magnitude of the effect, of the social justice warrior cult.

A ''social justice warrior cult''? What is that even supposed to be? ''social justice warrior'' is already a pretty ill defined slang that describe anything from people whose vision of activism is basically posting memes and petition on Facebook to violent Black Box protestors, passing by pretty much any vocal supporter of a social justice cause. Now, you add cult to that? Yeah, there is a few New Age woo peddlers that dabbles in social justice like some Gaia worshipers, divine female supremacist or polyamorous cults, but they are so hilariously few in numbers, I don't even think we can call them politicaly relevent. They do make good scarecrows for certain people and easy targets for jokes.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I think the majority of Trump voters voted for him in spite of his weaknesses. They were willing to accept a bully, and a braggart, someone without a political compass, or filter, someone who doesn't know when a modicum of respect is required, someone who is narcissistic and insecure because he wasn't calling them deplorable, racist, poor, and privileged.

The bolded part is a very strange formulation. What were you trying to say? It sounds you started with an idea, but ended with another.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  The SJWs were only a part of the equitation
I bet you mean equation, but I did laugh thinking about a social justice warrior riding a horse to war, but that would make him a social Justice knight or maybe a social justice dragoon.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  that lead to his victory, but without that part of the equation it would not have been possible for him to win. This article illustrates perfectly that the bein pensant narrative does not fit within reality.

I personnaly think the famous boogeyman of the ''SJW'' as very little to do with it. The online groups who were the most active supporters of Trump, flooded Facebook with political memes and sometime fake news à la pizzagate were already fringe far-right groups well known for their racism, mysoginy, homophobia and transphobia. They aren't those things because of ''SJW'', but uses them as a shield to legitimate their worldview and attract people toward their message. In pretty much the same fashion, the ''evil jews'' weren't the cause of nazism, it was their recruitment tool. Finding and showing stupid people in favor of altermondialism or LGBTQ rights isn't really difficult thanks to internet and it's a lot more easy to ridicule their ideas than to defend that of neo-reactionaries (because many of them are old, failed ideas). The support of these groups might have helped Trump's victory by motivating its base or giving him more free coverage.

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21-06-2017, 09:53 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I actually agree with much of what you have said. I think we may disagree on our assessment on the effect, or more precisely the magnitude of the effect, of the social justice warrior cult. I think the majority of Trump voters voted for him in spite of his weaknesses. They were willing to accept a bully, and a braggart, someone without a political compass, or filter, someone who doesn't know when a modicum of respect is required, someone who is narcissistic and insecure because he wasn't calling them deplorable, racist, poor, and privileged. It is undeniable that the intelligentsia was pushing propaganda that flies in the face of basic scientific and at times quantifiable fact. Now, of course only a fool could not recognize that there wasn't a confluence of factors that were required in order to to make his election possible. The SJWs were only a part of the equitation that lead to his victory, but without that part of the equation it would not have been possible for him to win. This article illustrates perfectly that the bein pensant narrative does not fit within reality.

Literally every Trump voter I have ever met, none of them said they voted against Hillary because she thought they were big, old, meanie, pooh-pooh-heads. Not a single, fucking, one.

Not one of them excused his narcissism because he didn't make fun of them, they just don't think he's narcissistic, don't know what narcissism is, or don't see it s a problem. There was no acceptance of his faults, they simply never saw any.

But I do love this idea that the SJW's are so monolithic that they put Trump into office. That's rich.

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21-06-2017, 10:04 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 09:38 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 03:17 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  The left did not propel Trump to victory, Trump voters did. You see many countries a have a system called a democracy whereby voters have a single vote each, they are all counted up with each candidate trying to get as many votes as possible.

Well...yes and no. Of course Trump riled up his base, but there were a fair number of Obama voters who switched to Trump in the states he flipped to the GOP.

Clinton was just a crappy candidate. Maybe she shouldn't have tried to pick up conservative states and focus a little more time on wining the states that were close--and she lost.

The election was Hillary's to lose, and she lost it.

Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me. No SJW conspiracy or boogeymen needed. Hillary simply was a shit campaigner.

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21-06-2017, 10:37 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 09:45 PM)epronovost Wrote:  A ''social justice warrior cult''? What is that even supposed to be? ''social justice warrior'' is already a pretty ill defined slang that describe anything from people whose vision of activism is basically posting memes and petition on Facebook to violent Black Box protestors, passing by pretty much any vocal supporter of a social justice cause. Now, you add cult to that? Yeah, there is a few New Age woo peddlers that dabbles in social justice like some Gaia worshipers, divine female supremacist or polyamorous cults, but they are so hilariously few in numbers, I don't even think we can call them politicaly relevent. They do make good scarecrows for certain people and easy targets for jokes.

How many people actually want creationism taught in school? A tiny vocal minority of science-denying morons? Yet, in parts of the country you can see their dirty fingerprints all over the curriculum. You don't have to be part of a majority to make a big impact. Where it is not vocally opposed and ridiculed it will flourish. This should be obvious.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I think the majority of Trump voters voted for him in spite of his weaknesses. They were willing to accept a bully, and a braggart, someone without a political compass, or filter, someone who doesn't know when a modicum of respect is required, someone who is narcissistic and insecure because he wasn't calling them deplorable, racist, poor, and privileged.

(21-06-2017 09:45 PM)epronovost Wrote:  The bolded part is a very strange formulation. What were you trying to say? It sounds you started with an idea, but ended with another.

I'm not sure what you have failed to understand. I thought it was clear enough. Perhaps I could be more terse. People were willing to overlook Trumps obvious faults because he wasn't shitting on them, and was speaking out against many of the people who were.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  The SJWs were only a part of the equitation
(21-06-2017 09:45 PM)epronovost Wrote:  I bet you mean equation, but I did laugh thinking about a social justice warrior riding a horse to war, but that would make him a social Justice knight or maybe a social justice dragoon.
. It's obvious that that is what I meant. I mean, I could have pointed out the obvious mistakes you made as well, but I choose to respond to your idea rather than spelling errors. E.g. "protestors", "politicaly", and "relevent".

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  that lead to his victory, but without that part of the equation it would not have been possible for him to win. This article illustrates perfectly that the bein pensant narrative does not fit within reality.

(21-06-2017 09:45 PM)epronovost Wrote:  I personnaly think the famous boogeyman of the ''SJW'' as very little to do with it. The online groups who were the most active supporters of Trump, flooded Facebook with political memes and sometime fake news à la pizzagate were already fringe far-right groups well known for their racism, mysoginy, homophobia and transphobia. They aren't those things because of ''SJW'', but uses them as a shield to legitimate their worldview and attract people toward their message. In pretty much the same fashion, the ''evil jews'' weren't the cause of nazism, it was their recruitment tool. Finding and showing stupid people in favor of altermondialism or LGBTQ rights isn't really difficult thanks to internet and it's a lot more easy to ridicule their ideas than to defend that of neo-reactionaries (because many of them are old, failed ideas). The support of these groups might have helped Trump's victory by motivating its base or giving him more free coverage.

The bold portion of your ideas don't parse. Maybe you could clarify. Did they, or did they not help Trump. You seem to be arguing mutually exclusive positions within the same paragraph. I am not being facetious, I genuinely would like an explanation. The fact that I have to type that out shows the weakness of text as a format for these type of debates.

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21-06-2017, 10:40 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 10:04 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 09:38 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Well...yes and no. Of course Trump riled up his base, but there were a fair number of Obama voters who switched to Trump in the states he flipped to the GOP.

Clinton was just a crappy candidate. Maybe she shouldn't have tried to pick up conservative states and focus a little more time on wining the states that were close--and she lost.

The election was Hillary's to lose, and she lost it.

Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me. No SJW conspiracy or boogeymen needed. Hillary simply was a shit campaigner.

Why would anyone vote for a party that calls them ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers? I sure wouldn't.

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21-06-2017, 10:51 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 09:53 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I actually agree with much of what you have said. I think we may disagree on our assessment on the effect, or more precisely the magnitude of the effect, of the social justice warrior cult. I think the majority of Trump voters voted for him in spite of his weaknesses. They were willing to accept a bully, and a braggart, someone without a political compass, or filter, someone who doesn't know when a modicum of respect is required, someone who is narcissistic and insecure because he wasn't calling them deplorable, racist, poor, and privileged. It is undeniable that the intelligentsia was pushing propaganda that flies in the face of basic scientific and at times quantifiable fact. Now, of course only a fool could not recognize that there wasn't a confluence of factors that were required in order to to make his election possible. The SJWs were only a part of the equitation that lead to his victory, but without that part of the equation it would not have been possible for him to win. This article illustrates perfectly that the bein pensant narrative does not fit within reality.

Literally every Trump voter I have ever met, none of them said they voted against Hillary because she thought they were big, old, meanie, pooh-pooh-heads. Not a single, fucking, one.

Not one of them excused his narcissism because he didn't make fun of them, they just don't think he's narcissistic, don't know what narcissism is, or don't see it s a problem. There was no acceptance of his faults, they simply never saw any.

But I do love this idea that the SJW's are so monolithic that they put Trump into office. That's rich.

There are different levels of knowledge. I know that there are mathematical proofs that explain how gravity is a force that's responsible for how planetary objects interact with one another. I couldn't explain it to anyone, I'd be a bumbling blathering idiot in my attempt.

I know that Alex Jones is responsible for people believing all sorts of crazy shit, but I don not know to what degree is a mecca for the already crazy, and to what degree he is converting the previously rational and reasonable people.

Many Trump voters know that people like you call them racist dirt-fuckers for unjustified reasons.

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21-06-2017, 11:43 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 10:40 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 10:04 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The election was Hillary's to lose, and she lost it.

Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me. No SJW conspiracy or boogeymen needed. Hillary simply was a shit campaigner.

Why would anyone vote for a party that calls them ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers? I sure wouldn't.

Right. So saying it doesn't make it any more or less true, but you don't need a SJW conspiracy or boogeyman to explain simple campaign ineptitude.

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