Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
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21-06-2017, 11:46 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 10:51 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 09:53 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Literally every Trump voter I have ever met, none of them said they voted against Hillary because she thought they were big, old, meanie, pooh-pooh-heads. Not a single, fucking, one.

Not one of them excused his narcissism because he didn't make fun of them, they just don't think he's narcissistic, don't know what narcissism is, or don't see it s a problem. There was no acceptance of his faults, they simply never saw any.

But I do love this idea that the SJW's are so monolithic that they put Trump into office. That's rich.

There are different levels of knowledge. I know that there are mathematical proofs that explain how gravity is a force that's responsible for how planetary objects interact with one another. I couldn't explain it to anyone, I'd be a bumbling blathering idiot in my attempt.

I know that Alex Jones is responsible for people believing all sorts of crazy shit, but I don not know to what degree is a mecca for the already crazy, and to what degree he is converting the previously rational and reasonable people.

Many Trump voters know that people like you call them racist dirt-fuckers for unjustified reasons.

So? At what point does calling a spade a spade make me responsible for the spades electing a spade?

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21-06-2017, 11:48 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2017 11:52 PM by epronovost.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 10:37 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  How many people actually want creationism taught in school? A tiny vocal minority of science-denying morons? Yet, in parts of the country you can see their dirty fingerprints all over the curriculum. You don't have to be part of a majority to make a big impact. Where it is not vocally opposed and ridiculed it will flourish. This should be obvious.

I don't see much the impact of the ''cultish'', woo peddling ''social justice warriors'' in the American political landscape (with the possible exception of the anti-vaccine and bio foodies). I don't think the comparison stands. Creationism is a falling theory. It left a big mark in the educational and political lanscape of the United States because it used to very prevalent and has only become a fringe idea in the last four decades or so. As we speak, its loosing in terms of strength and influence.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  'm not sure what you have failed to understand. I thought it was clear enough. Perhaps I could be more terse. People were willing to overlook Trumps obvious faults because he wasn't shitting on them, and was speaking out against many of the people who were.

Sorry, I misread your comment.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It's obvious that that is what I meant. I mean, I could have pointed out the obvious mistakes you made as well, but I choose to respond to your idea rather than spelling errors. E.g. "protestors", "politicaly", and "relevent".

My apologies, my comment was a failed attempt at humor. I didn't intended to sound pedantic or insulting. I know this can be very frustrating to spend time constructing an argument and writting it down only to have comments on spelling and grammar.

(21-06-2017 09:07 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  The bold portion of your ideas don't parse. Maybe you could clarify. Did they, or did they not help Trump. You seem to be arguing mutually exclusive positions within the same paragraph. I am not being facetious, I genuinely would like an explanation. The fact that I have to type that out shows the weakness of text as a format for these type of debates.

Fringe right wing groups might have helped Trump achieve victory during his campaign. How much did they helped if at all, I don't know, but I do believe they helped him a little bit, but they were not vital in its victory.

These groups support an ideology that is opposed to the concept of universal human rights and social justice. They obviously are ''anti-SJW'', but they weren't driven off the ideas of universal human rights and social justice by the actions of the said ''SJW''. They don't believe in them because they favor ideas like hygenism, nationalism or social darwnism for example. ''SJW'' are simply a convenient strawman to present themselves and retain a measure of legitimacy on an intellectual level despite the fact that their ideologies have been shown as deeply flawed if not downright murderous.

The efforts and publicity provided by fringe right wing group wasn't directed to people on the political left, but to their own constituant and those who flirt awfully close to them, in other words, with people who already rejected at least partially notions like universal human rights and social justice.

In resume, ''SJW'' don't chase people off the polls or from ideas of social justice and universal human rights in general. "Anti-SJW'' rethoric used to promote ideas like hygenism, nationalism, social darwinism and others does shift people. The agent of change is different. It's not the stupid cultish lady who saps support to social justice. On its own, examples like the one you provided are ignored or brushed aside as simple, relatively harmless and stupid drivel. it's the person, who holds to a different ideology, who uses the cultish lady as an easy punching bag to establish himself/herself as intellectualy and morally superior that sways people away.

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21-06-2017, 11:54 PM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 11:43 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 10:40 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Why would anyone vote for a party that calls them ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers? I sure wouldn't.

Right. So saying it doesn't make it any more or less true, but you don't need a SJW conspiracy or boogeyman to explain simple campaign ineptitude.

There are morons in the midwest who voted for Trump, there are morons in the most metropolitan place you can think of that voted for him, there are racists who voted for Bernie, and Communists who voted for Hillary, and they may be from LA or Boluxi. Why don't you attack bad ideas with good ideas, instead of just ossifying political divide through name-calling? Seems to be a more practical and effective strategy to me.

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22-06-2017, 12:02 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 11:54 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 11:43 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right. So saying it doesn't make it any more or less true, but you don't need a SJW conspiracy or boogeyman to explain simple campaign ineptitude.

There are morons in the midwest who voted for Trump, there are morons in the most metropolitan place you can think of that voted for him, there are racists who voted for Bernie, and Communists who voted for Hillary, and they may be from LA or Boluxi. Why don't you attack bad ideas with good ideas, instead of just ossifying political divide through name-calling? Seems to be a more practical and effective strategy to me.

Oh, you mean like your blanket characterization of SJW's?

The systemic social justice warrior intelligentsia, who propelled Trump to victory, and spur on racial tensions, double-down on their idiocy.

Whatever you say ace. Drinking Beverage

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22-06-2017, 12:26 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 11:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  I don't see much the impact of the ''cultish'', woo peddling ''social justice warriors'' in the American political landscape (with the possible exception of the anti-vaccine and bio foodies). I don't think the comparison stands. Creationism is a falling theory. It left a big mark in the educational and political lanscape of the United States because it used to very prevalent and has only become a fringe idea in the last four decades or so. As we speak, its loosing in terms of strength and influence.

I agree, and the reason why it has continued to lose strength and influence is because scientifically literate people ridiculed the idea, and unabashedly lampooned the ridiculousness of it. They admonished the creationists. That's what is required of us to these half-wits as well. And If you don't care for 'cult', I'm happy to call it an ignoble, moronic, ideology of hate, if you'd prefer that moniker. Big Grin

(21-06-2017 11:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Sorry, I misread your comment.

My apologies, my comment was a failed attempt at humor. I didn't intended to sound pedantic or insulting. I know this can be very frustrating to spend time constructing an argument and writting it down only to have comments on spelling and grammar.

No worries.

(21-06-2017 11:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Fringe right wing groups might have helped Trump achieve victory during his campaign. How much did they helped if at all, I don't know, but I do believe they helped him a little bit, but they were not vital in its victory.

Again, I think you're largely in agreement with me. I think the effect was larger than you do. But certainly, you must confess that Trump's victory was narrow enough that had this mutually agreed upon problem didn't exist that we may have a different POTUS right now? We may have very well had different candidates to choose from for that matter. Traditional Republicans hate Trump just as much as traditional Democrats.


(21-06-2017 11:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  These groups support an ideology that is opposed to the concept of universal human rights and social justice. They obviously are ''anti-SJW'', but they weren't driven off the ideas of universal human rights and social justice by the actions of the said ''SJW''. They don't believe in them because they favor ideas like hygenism, nationalism or social darwnism for example. ''SJW'' are simply a convenient strawman to present themselves and retain a measure of legitimacy on an intellectual level despite the fact that their ideologies have been shown as deeply flawed if not downright murderous.


Perhaps there is a bit of a semantic disagreement between us, but I don't consider it to be so big as to merit a separate argument, so I'll just simply say there is a problem coming to a narrow and punctilious definition for any such label, E.g. "liberal", "conservative", "SJW" or "Alt-Right".

(21-06-2017 11:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  The efforts and publicity provided by fringe right wing group wasn't directed to people on the political left, but to their own constituant and those who flirt awfully close to them, in other words, with people who already rejected at least partially notions like universal human rights and social justice.

There is a particularly apt quote I unsuccessfully attempted to to find by the late Christopher Hitchens, so I will paraphrase 'A problem dodged by the left will happily be taken up by the right'

(21-06-2017 11:48 PM)epronovost Wrote:  In resume, ''SJW'' don't chase people off the polls or from ideas of social justice and universal human rights in general. "Anti-SJW'' rethoric used to promote ideas like hygenism, nationalism, social darwinism and others does shift people. The agent of change is different. It's not the stupid cultish lady who saps support to social justice. On its own, examples like the one you provided are ignored or brushed aside as simple, relatively harmless and stupid drivel. it's the person, who holds to a different ideology, who uses the cultish lady as an easy punching bag to establish himself/herself as intellectualy and morally superior that sways people away.

I am not concerned about this contention one way or another. It makes no difference whatsoever. If I stop my enemies from advancing their tanks onto my territory, I don't particularly car if I stop them by digging trenches they cannot navigate past, or if I stop the supply lines from getting them fuel.

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22-06-2017, 12:32 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 12:02 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 11:54 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  There are morons in the midwest who voted for Trump, there are morons in the most metropolitan place you can think of that voted for him, there are racists who voted for Bernie, and Communists who voted for Hillary, and they may be from LA or Boluxi. Why don't you attack bad ideas with good ideas, instead of just ossifying political divide through name-calling? Seems to be a more practical and effective strategy to me.

Oh, you mean like your blanket characterization of SJW's?

The systemic social justice warrior intelligentsia, who propelled Trump to victory, and spur on racial tensions, double-down on their idiocy.

Whatever you say ace. Drinking Beverage

If you cannot see the difference between using insulting labels based on ideas, and using vitriol to describe groups of people based on immutable properties, places of origin, and so on then you are part of the problem.

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22-06-2017, 12:46 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 12:32 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 12:02 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Oh, you mean like your blanket characterization of SJW's?

The systemic social justice warrior intelligentsia, who propelled Trump to victory, and spur on racial tensions, double-down on their idiocy.

Whatever you say ace. Drinking Beverage

If you cannot see the difference between using insulting labels based on ideas, and using vitriol to describe groups of people based on immutable properties, places of origin, and so on then you are part of the problem.

Since when was 'racism', 'xenophobia', or 'jingoism' not an idea? Facepalm

Come on, that's stupid, even for you.

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22-06-2017, 12:48 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 12:46 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 12:32 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  If you cannot see the difference between using insulting labels based on ideas, and using vitriol to describe groups of people based on immutable properties, places of origin, and so on then you are part of the problem.

Since when was 'racism' not an idea? Facepalm

Brother EK, First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.

You are calling people 'racist' on the basis that they are from the midwest.

Take a moment to do a bit of reflection.

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22-06-2017, 12:56 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
...

DL your thread title claims that the left is the reason Trump won. Your argument seems to be that calling people racist, advocating feminism and trans rights etc somehow made people vote for the arsehole in the room. Well, sure, Hillary wasn't an amazing candidate, but people are responsible for their own votes? They are capable of making their own decisions? The right are not so fragile that just calling a person a racist will make them vote for the other team, ignoring whether or not the candidate and the candidate's policies are worthy of their vote? Or are they really that juvenile?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-06-2017, 01:01 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 12:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  ...

DL your thread title claims that the left is the reason Trump won. Your argument seems to be that calling people racist, advocating feminism and trans rights etc somehow made people vote for the arsehole in the room. Well, sure, Hillary wasn't an amazing candidate, but people are responsible for their own votes? They are capable of making their own decisions? The right are not so fragile that just calling a person a racist will make them vote for the other team, ignoring whether or not the candidate and the candidate's policies are worthy of their vote? Or are they really that juvenile?

You have once again completely misunderstood, or with malicious intention misrepresented my position. I do believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt though, so I'll assume the former. You keep using weasel words like "seem to" to then describe something that is not representative of my position. Since you have such a difficult time understanding me, I again invite you to have an actual audio conversation so I can hopefully elucidate my position to your understanding.

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