Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
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22-06-2017, 03:40 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 03:03 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 02:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I know, just like how not every Midwesterner is a dirt-fucker, for fuck's sake.

Why is talking to you akin to pulling teeth?

I'm not the one who said that. Idiotic Lefties is a subset of Lefties. Midwesterners are X makes no distinction. All Midwesterners are X. Not a Subset.

I recommend Charles S. Peirce's the Validity of the Laws of Logic.


Actually, on the topic of 'effective communication'.


Your thread is titled...

"Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect"


My Midwesterner statement that you took umbrage with is...

"Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me."


You now claim that you are only ranting against the idiotic lefties, that 'idiotic' is a subset of 'leftist'. If we are inclined to be charitable, that is one possible reading of it, sure. But the line is ambiguous, and could also be used to throw all lefties under the bus as idiotic. What would help here to dispels the ambiguity would be additional language. Like these for example...

'Some Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect'

The addition of 'some' makes it explicitly clear that some, not all, lefties are the subject of your ire.

'All Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect'
'Idiotic Lefties Are All Responsible for the Trump Effect'

The addition of 'all' makes it more explicit that your target is more all-encompassing.

Case in point, I did not write...

'Now all the Midwest yokels might be are a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers...'


So once again, why the double standard in interpretation? Why do you get to hide behind a subset, while assuming that I cannot? If not all lefties are idiots, why must all Midwesterners be dirt-fuckers? You are assuming the most charitable interpretation for yourself. I just followed your lead, using ambiguous hyperbolic rhetoric to mimic your own. This is why I called you a hypocrite, and near as I can tell, it's still well deserved.

Still, none of this at all addresses how calling out a spade for being a spade makes it my responsibility when spades vote for another spade.

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22-06-2017, 03:52 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 03:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 03:03 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I'm not the one who said that. Idiotic Lefties is a subset of Lefties. Midwesterners are X makes no distinction. All Midwesterners are X. Not a Subset.

I recommend Charles S. Peirce's the Validity of the Laws of Logic.


Actually, on the topic of 'effective communication'.


Your thread is titled...

"Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect"


My Midwesterner statement that you took umbrage with is...

"Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me."


You now claim that you are only ranting against the idiotic lefties, that 'idiotic' is a subset of 'leftist'. If we are inclined to be charitable, that is one possible reading of it, sure. But the line is ambiguous, and could also be used to throw all lefties under the bus as idiotic. What would help here to dispels the ambiguity would be additional language. Like these for example...

'Some Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect'

The addition of 'some' makes it explicitly clear that some, not all, lefties are the subject of your ire.

'All Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect'
'Idiotic Lefties Are All Responsible for the Trump Effect'

The addition of 'all' makes it more explicit that your target is more all-encompassing.

Case in point, I did not write...

'Now all the Midwest yokels might be are a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers...'


So once again, why the double standard in interpretation? Why do you get to hide behind a subset, while assuming that I cannot? If not all lefties are idiots, why must all Midwesterners be dirt-fuckers? You are assuming the most charitable interpretation for yourself. I just followed your lead, using ambiguous hyperbolic rhetoric to mimic your own. This is why I called you a hypocrite, and near as I can tell, it's still well deserved.

Still, none of this at all addresses how calling out a spade for being a spade makes it my responsibility when spades vote for another spade.

'Some Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect' is a much weaker title. I stand by my title, though perhaps I should've went out of my way to explain that in the text below the title in the OP. I'm not convinced you were legitimately confused by the time I had typed a several responses, however.

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22-06-2017, 05:35 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2017 05:44 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 03:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  'Some Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect' is a much weaker title. I stand by my title, though perhaps I should've went out of my way to explain that in the text below the title in the OP. I'm not convinced you were legitimately confused by the time I had typed a several responses, however.


Of course not, that would require acknowledging that you went on a multi-page hypocrisy fueled Starwman hunt for nothing, and we certainly cannot have that...

Also, I wasn't so much confused as playing with your ambiguity in order to highlight it with exaggeration. You might recognize that as satire.

Satire - The use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.



Also, I'm still curious as to what point does calling a spade a spade make me responsible for the spades electing a spade?

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22-06-2017, 05:45 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 05:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Of course not, that would require acknowledging that you went on a multi-page hypocrisy fueled Starwman hunt for nothing, and we certainly cannot have that...

What are you talking about? A 'strawman' would imply that I there are no nutso SJWs? No?

(22-06-2017 05:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Also, I wasn't so much confused as playing with your ambiguity in order to highlight it with exaggeration. You might recognize that as satire.

I don't recognize that as satire, because that's not what satire is. That's called being intentionally dishonest for the sole purpose of trolling and being a dick.

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22-06-2017, 05:58 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 03:27 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  What I am saying is that without the factor of the Loonie SJWs The Trumpening could not of happened. This is one of the factors that made POTUS Trump a possibility. The fact that liberals didn't also mock their BS (loudly enough) as they did with BS from 'the other camp' was a factor, without which POTUS Trump could not have been a possibility. Of course I also acknowledge Clinton was a shit candidate, and she had a shitty campaign, and so on and so forth, but that was not enough to prevent her from becoming POTUS. Hopefully this is abundantly clear, but if not I know of no other way to explain what I'm saying.

And now that you have clarified, I'm gonna disagree. I think the main reason Trump got into power was the same as any demagogue. He promised people what they wanted to hear. "Loonie SJWs" did not create the economic conditions prevalent in the US. They might well have been used as a scapegoat, but IMO you can't at the same time think that they're incredibly silly and stupid, and then claim that they're the reason an entire segment of the population voted the way it did. Out of all the candidates, Trump with his utopian promises of returning jobs and scare tactics that "everyone is out to get you" carried the day. His racism and bluster was just icing on the cake which emboldened all the shitty little white supremacist / men's rights activist / whatever the fuck else movements everywhere.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-06-2017, 06:05 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2017 06:10 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 05:45 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 05:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Of course not, that would require acknowledging that you went on a multi-page hypocrisy fueled Starwman hunt for nothing, and we certainly cannot have that...

What are you talking about? A 'strawman' would imply that I there are no nutso SJWs? No?

(22-06-2017 05:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Also, I wasn't so much confused as playing with your ambiguity in order to highlight it with exaggeration. You might recognize that as satire.

I don't recognize that as satire, because that's not what satire is. That's called being intentionally dishonest for the sole purpose of trolling and being a dick.

You saw the definition for satire, right? I'm not surprised that the target of satire doesn't appreciate it, but that's neither here nor there.

Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me.

So, that's certainly exaggerated to a ridiculous degree, and I can tell you it was intended to be funny (not for you, obviously). If might not be good satire, and you don't have to appreciate it. But are you going to tell me with a straight face that it's not exaggerated? I wrote 'dirt-fuckers', do you seriously think I was being literal? That my beef with Midwesterners (and all of them, according to you) is their propensity to drop trou and hump the earth beneath them until the sweet release of climax?

Plus, as stated earlier, you are not judging my statement by the same standards as your own.

Now the Midwest yokels might be a bunch of ass-backwards, racist, xenophobic, dirt fuckers; but I wouldn't say that to their faces right before asking them to vote for me.

Right off the bat, it's Midwestern yokels. So that's either a subset of Midwesterners, or a subset of yokels; but clearly not all yokels or all Midwesterners (just like your 'idiotic liberals' is neither all liberals or all idiots, if we're apply the same standard across the board). Followed by might, adding yet another level of distance and differentiation between my statement and a more blanket and all encompassing statement. Racist and xenophobic are there to key you up, followed by dirt-fucker. That's akin to a 'baby-eating' atheist. The point being was to mock your posts and position, through exaggeration and humor.

What was your retort again?

People from the Midwest are stupid. People from Mexico are stupid. For what reason is statement 1 a reasonable assessment of individuals, and statement to is bigoted?

To which I responded.

As reasonable as 'People from the political left are stupid'.

Highlighting the ridiculousness of your posts, by holding them up to a mirror. My post is a more exaggerated take on what you did, but it's only as ridiculous as to the standard that you use on yourself. With a charitable interpretation, it's less ridiculous. But if the ambiguity is left there, it's pretty fucking rich; and as I've demonstrated, my post is actually less ambiguous than yours, due to the additional language you seem to have chosen to read out of it.


I doubt all of the aristocracy appreciated the promotion of peasant baby-eating in A Modest Proposal. But it wasn't written for them, was it?



Plus still waiting on that answer to why calling a spade a spade makes me responsible when the spades vote for a spade.

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22-06-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(21-06-2017 08:37 PM)LifelongAtheist Wrote:  
(21-06-2017 03:17 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  What's more interesting is how you are using it as an example. I have no idea why right wing Americans seem to see all non right-wing Americans as a homogenous group of people and dehumanise them the way that they do.

What we have here is an article that demonstrates just shows up the illogical things that Christians believe in.

The left did not propel Trump to victory, Trump voters did. You see many countries a have a system called a democracy whereby voters have a single vote each, they are all counted up with each candidate trying to get as many votes as possible.

Honestly, I had heard that the American education system was bad (hence the reason Trump got in) but your posts really exemplifies it.
No one propelled Trump to victory except the Electoral College. It's certainly possible to debate Hillary's campaign strategy, but she won 2.9 million more votes than Trump did. I think that must be taken into account in discussions like this.

Yepper. The Republicans loved what the orange turd represented and came out strongly for him. Hillary was unable raise enough enthusiasm in the right areas among Democratic voters. The electoral college was able to produce arguably the most lopsided disconnect between it and the popular vote.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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22-06-2017, 06:36 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
Let's not forget everybody's darling Jimmy Comey-lately and his email fuckery. For all that he's the bastion of morals now that he dun got fired.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-06-2017, 06:50 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
(22-06-2017 05:58 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 03:27 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  What I am saying is that without the factor of the Loonie SJWs The Trumpening could not of happened. This is one of the factors that made POTUS Trump a possibility. The fact that liberals didn't also mock their BS (loudly enough) as they did with BS from 'the other camp' was a factor, without which POTUS Trump could not have been a possibility. Of course I also acknowledge Clinton was a shit candidate, and she had a shitty campaign, and so on and so forth, but that was not enough to prevent her from becoming POTUS. Hopefully this is abundantly clear, but if not I know of no other way to explain what I'm saying.

And now that you have clarified, I'm gonna disagree. I think the main reason Trump got into power was the same as any demagogue. He promised people what they wanted to hear. "Loonie SJWs" did not create the economic conditions prevalent in the US. They might well have been used as a scapegoat, but IMO you can't at the same time think that they're incredibly silly and stupid, and then claim that they're the reason an entire segment of the population voted the way it did. Out of all the candidates, Trump with his utopian promises of returning jobs and scare tactics that "everyone is out to get you" carried the day. His racism and bluster was just icing on the cake which emboldened all the shitty little white supremacist / men's rights activist / whatever the fuck else movements everywhere.

And now you are strawmanning me. Where did I ever imply SJW's were responsible for the economic conditions of America? I didn't. The other issues you list I will happily concede. That takes nothing away from me whatsoever.
I think religious people believe in stupid, and silly ideas, and I think there is a segment of the population whose vote are dictated by their silly and stupid ideas. How is this any different?

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22-06-2017, 06:52 AM
RE: Idiotic Lefties Are Responsible for the Trump Effect
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