If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
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03-12-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
(02-12-2014 08:45 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I'm changing my answer on #2!

#2 "Gah! Someone find me a towel right goddamn now!"



HOW DID I FORGET THAT!?!

As always, the answer is 42.

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03-12-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
(03-12-2014 07:41 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Somewhere there are alien capitalists who want to mine earth for its petrified pug shit (a scarce and valuable resource where they come from), but alien hippies still have enough alien senators in office to push for the protection of primitive indigenous species like us.

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They always struck me more as libertarians, what with acting like space faring Ted Nugent....

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04-12-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
(02-12-2014 11:27 AM)Free Wrote:  I think the simplest answer would be that they would be here because this is their home of origin, considering what I suggested in my post.

Perhaps they didn't come from anywhere else, but instead they evolved right here on earth?

That just raises worse problems. It leaves wholly unanswered the matter of the apparent obsession with secrecy - well; concealment towards the credible but innumerable appearances to the credulous - but it's voodoo shark level bad at explaining away the original problem without introducing more.

When did these beings evolve? Where? From what? And how did they manage to do so over millions of years without leaving a single visible trace of fossil evidence anywhere on Earth?

How did their civilisation develop? Why did it, too, leave no evidence whatsoever of the thousands and thousands of years worth of artifacts and geo-engineering necessary for any culture?

The amount of hand-waving special pleading required to even entertain such a supposition defies any reasonable consideration.

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04-12-2014, 10:50 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
(04-12-2014 10:26 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 11:27 AM)Free Wrote:  I think the simplest answer would be that they would be here because this is their home of origin, considering what I suggested in my post.

Perhaps they didn't come from anywhere else, but instead they evolved right here on earth?

That just raises worse problems. It leaves wholly unanswered the matter of the apparent obsession with secrecy - well; concealment towards the credible but innumerable appearances to the credulous - but it's voodoo shark level bad at explaining away the original problem without introducing more.

When did these beings evolve? Where? From what? And how did they manage to do so over millions of years without leaving a single visible trace of fossil evidence anywhere on Earth?

How did their civilisation develop? Why did it, too, leave no evidence whatsoever of the thousands and thousands of years worth of artifacts and geo-engineering necessary for any culture?

The amount of hand-waving special pleading required to even entertain such a supposition defies any reasonable consideration.

You response appears legitimate ... from a human perspective.

You have taught me something I consider to be very important. You have taught me, and demonstrated, how we should not apply human reasoning to things we do not know ie; prior to the Big Bang, et al.

Now, although I am not in complete agreement with you, I consider your position to be reasonable and certainly worthy of serious consideration.

Therefore, I ask that you do the same here when I say, "We cannot expect another intelligent non human life-form to behave or exist in a human way."

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04-12-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
(04-12-2014 10:50 AM)Free Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 10:26 AM)cjlr Wrote:  That just raises worse problems. It leaves wholly unanswered the matter of the apparent obsession with secrecy - well; concealment towards the credible but innumerable appearances to the credulous - but it's voodoo shark level bad at explaining away the original problem without introducing more.

When did these beings evolve? Where? From what? And how did they manage to do so over millions of years without leaving a single visible trace of fossil evidence anywhere on Earth?

How did their civilisation develop? Why did it, too, leave no evidence whatsoever of the thousands and thousands of years worth of artifacts and geo-engineering necessary for any culture?

The amount of hand-waving special pleading required to even entertain such a supposition defies any reasonable consideration.

You response appears legitimate ... from a human perspective.

You have taught me something I consider to be very important. You have taught me, and demonstrated, how we should not apply human reasoning to things we do not know ie; prior to the Big Bang, et al.

Now, although I am not in complete agreement with you, I consider your position to be reasonable and certainly worthy of serious consideration.

Therefore, I ask that you do the same here when I say, "We cannot expect another intelligent non human life-form to behave or exist in a human way."

I wouldn't presume to apply human reasoning to non-human intelligences (however, that's a sample size of zero in any case). But other forms of life are subject to some conditions we do know about, by virtue of living within the same universe we begin to understand. They will require an input of energy and resources to sustain themselves and reproduce. They will produce material outputs as a consequence of biology and technology. This follows inevitably should one grant that there is any - quality notwithstanding - evidence in existence to begin with! Because that evidence is perforce proof of treating with the same physical interactions we rely on to see it in the first place.

That still does not have any bearing on material reality and evidence. Such intelligences cannot emerge and develop in a vacuum. To claim otherwise is not just to fill gaps with baseless speculation but to invent those gaps in order to fill them. To suppose an "explanation" ever-farther removed from what is known and knowable is to embrace special pleading to the hilt. "It's unknown therefore I know" is not valid.

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04-12-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
(04-12-2014 10:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 10:50 AM)Free Wrote:  You response appears legitimate ... from a human perspective.

You have taught me something I consider to be very important. You have taught me, and demonstrated, how we should not apply human reasoning to things we do not know ie; prior to the Big Bang, et al.

Now, although I am not in complete agreement with you, I consider your position to be reasonable and certainly worthy of serious consideration.

Therefore, I ask that you do the same here when I say, "We cannot expect another intelligent non human life-form to behave or exist in a human way."

I wouldn't presume to apply human reasoning to non-human intelligences (however, that's a sample size of zero in any case). But other forms of life are subject to some conditions we do know about, by virtue of living within the same universe we begin to understand. They will require an input of energy and resources to sustain themselves and reproduce. They will produce material outputs as a consequence of biology and technology. This follows inevitably should one grant that there is any - quality notwithstanding - evidence in existence to begin with! Because that evidence is perforce proof of treating with the same physical interactions we rely on to see it in the first place.

That still does not have any bearing on material reality and evidence. Such intelligences cannot emerge and develop in a vacuum. To claim otherwise is not just to fill gaps with baseless speculation but to invent those gaps in order to fill them. To suppose an "explanation" ever-farther removed from what is known and knowable is to embrace special pleading to the hilt. "It's unknown therefore I know" is not valid.

Agree!

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04-12-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
I wonder if aliens are religious.

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04-12-2014, 02:50 PM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
^An intelegent alien is probably capible of abstract thought. They certainly comunicate. If they can abstractly comunicate they can probably tell stories. If they can tell stories some would have lied for advantage.

Case in point:. If they're social and there was a point where they didn't duly understand the universe then it's possible.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

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08-12-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
For aliens to communicate with us would possibly be like us talking to apes. We would need to learn to communicate with them. If they were bringing enlightenment and great knowledge then I think they would be welcomed with open arms, but if they were like immigrants and needed to take off of us and were a burden, then I think societys reaction would be a little less appealing towards them.

"What powers your ship" is going to be one of them dodgy questions that could literally change our planet and upset the applecart in many ways.

I dunno how I would react, apprehensive at first. Id like to dream they would help advance our race and through technology free the world of need and help us journey into the stars, but on the other hand they may simply be like our leaders and wish to exploit a situation to their own needs/agendas for the good of their people.

It might be a universe eat universe out there......

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08-12-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: If Extraterrestrial Contact Occured
Come on now.
We all know that if aliens made actual contact with us, the very first thought in our heads would be, "Huh. I wonder what they taste like..."
Tongue

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