If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
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28-12-2012, 08:36 PM
If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
It makes me wonder. If there was a sign from God or an attempt by Him to communicate with us, would we be willing to accept or validate it?

So holy books are easily refuted as are miracles. So what would be acceptable?

On possible solution is that the signal would have to be something that science can validate. But is that impossible and at the end of the day, just a matter of faith?

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28-12-2012, 09:00 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
I think it would be rather easy for God to speak to us and be recognized as God. If I heard a disembodied voice in response to questions posed to Him, I would expect that to be God (in the same way that answers to questions I pose to you would be recognized as "from you"). If God "magicked" a note into my hands, I would assume it was from Him. Even if a theist told me "God told me to say this" and it was the most clever, inarguable statement I had ever heard, I would assume it had been from God.

Of course there are other possible explanations for these phenomena, but we don't even have as much, so we don't need other possible explanations. We have bible-dowsing, thousands "speaking for God" but saying different things on the same subjects, intuition... nothing even remotely hard to explain. The bible, promising more than it can deliver, tells of things like the apostles speaking in tongues, but the modern-day version is easy explainable and non-miraculous compared to the supposed "speaking in a way so that every man hears it in his own language". If I heard speaking in tongues, I would believe.

People could technically deny any level of proof on any subject if they so desired. But the reason that atheists don't believe God speaks to them is because He, if He exists, can't even communicate with us like other "lesser" people do, despite supposedly creating us to communicate as we do. Is God incapable of forum posts, e-mail, phone calls, letters, vocal communication, physical gestures, and books written without proxy? We can all do those things. Why can't He?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-12-2012, 09:03 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
It depends on what kind of sign or communication. Maybe if he did some verifiable miracles, repeatedly.

If I simply heard a disembodied voice answering my questions, I'd have myself committed. I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of "visions" and voices heard by religious folks could also be explained as hallucinations or mental illness.
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28-12-2012, 09:10 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
(28-12-2012 09:03 PM)amyb Wrote:  It depends on what kind of sign or communication. Maybe if he did some verifiable miracles, repeatedly.

If I simply heard a disembodied voice answering my questions, I'd have myself committed. I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of "visions" and voices heard by religious folks could also be explained as hallucinations or mental illness.

It's funny that I would interpret it as God but you would interpret it as mental illness, with neither of us being able to prove the cause. However, at least your explanation would be consistent with things that have been known to happen. I listed things that I "would interpret as God", but in all fairness, if God was capable of these communications He would've used them by now, so it's actually unlikely that I would interpret them as God if they happened today. My answer could be better read as "here are some things that would have been interpreted as God if He had ever bothered to use them".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-12-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
Here ya go, butthead: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-The-LC

Consciousness, born of sequence, reflecting on simultaneity within the collective. All it has ever been.

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28-12-2012, 09:22 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
I just think that, if God was going to give signs, he'd do something less ambiguous, I guess. If he wanted to prove his existence, he'd need to do more than have a handful of folks hearing voices. If hearing voices was evidence of god, you could prove god's existence by visiting any psychiatric ward. Even if some voices are legitimately god's, the phenomenon of hearing voices includes a lot of other voices and mental illness. I'd expect something a bit more impressive from an allegedly omnipotent being, I suppose.
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28-12-2012, 09:40 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
I would think that God would be aware of the best way to express himself to me. And that he would convey his message in that manner.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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28-12-2012, 09:49 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
If a god existed and spoke to people it would be as obvious as the rising sun each day.
Then when atheists began to ask questions, god's mind would explode, thus killing god.

So we would have a god for a day.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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28-12-2012, 09:53 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
If God "tried" to speak to us? If there was "an attempt by Him to communicate with us?

Are you serious???

God is freaking OMNIPOTENT. He doesn't "try" or "attempt" anything - he just does it. Furthermore, he is OMNISCIENT. He knows exactly what to do to communicate with each and every one of us in a way that each and every one of us will understand and accept, and he's omnipotent enough [sic] to pull that off, instantly, accurately, and infallibly.

Try? There is no try; there is do, or do not. But when Yoda said that, he was talking about Jedi. Sometimes Jedi fail. God never fails - omnipotence precludes any chance of failure. For him, there is no try; there is do. Perdiod.

You said "the signal would have to be something that science can validate. But is that impossible" Wrong. Nothing is impossible for God. Nothing.

So your question is entirely invalid.

What you meant to ask is "If god infallibly communicates with us to perfectly convince us that he is God and he is very real, would we be willing to accept or validate it?" But that is in itself a silly and useless question. Of course we would accept and validate infallible, perfect, convincing communication from a very real god. How could we not?

Or did you mean to ask if we would fall on our knees and worship him? Well, that depends. If he sticks with the "worship me or burn in Hell for all eternity" game plan, then yes, I'd pucker right up and kiss his divine ass. Humiliating, yes, but suffering a million such humiliations is only the tiniest tip of the iceberg compared to the insufferable eternal agony of Hell. But if he is a kinder, mellower god, like say, the Mormon version, where kissing his ass is optional and there is no Hell, just a less awesome Heaven, then yes, I'd probably tell him to kiss his own ass. Or maybe not; a little ass-kissing for a few more decades and then I get to be an actual god with a universe of my own - I'd probably still go for the ass kissing.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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28-12-2012, 10:07 PM
RE: If God did try to speak to us, would we even recognize or accept it?
(28-12-2012 09:10 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(28-12-2012 09:03 PM)amyb Wrote:  It depends on what kind of sign or communication. Maybe if he did some verifiable miracles, repeatedly.

If I simply heard a disembodied voice answering my questions, I'd have myself committed. I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of "visions" and voices heard by religious folks could also be explained as hallucinations or mental illness.

It's funny that I would interpret it as God but you would interpret it as mental illness, with neither of us being able to prove the cause.

First time reflecting on the LC I was like...

[Image: aliens-meme.jpg]

Cereal. That's gotta be the modern meme, if there's any "us" going on with "god."

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