If Jesus Never Existed...
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26-04-2017, 10:09 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 11:01 AM)kim Wrote:  Fuck - wrong thread. Dodgy
***

I can't seem to find the right thread.
Fuck it. Guess I'll stay here
Smile

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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26-04-2017, 10:30 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 07:10 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  No response? Hmmm.
To which post Will?

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26-04-2017, 10:46 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 10:54 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  
Quote:I know some think Jesus did not exist, and some think he did exist but was merely human. This got me thinking if Jesus didn't exist, how did all the stories about him originate?

Well there's different theories, but we have a bunch of big clues that Jesus wasn't the messiah that history, thankfully, left behind for us.

Quote:This isn't the same as asking how did the stories of Zeus/Odin etc exist because they are obviously 'gods' and were never deemed to be human. But there's this story about a man called Jesus, who walked and talked in Galilee and spoke to people etc.

Hercules?

Good people have been confabulated upon since the dawn of time. Jesus wasn't the first. Claims about him just happened to be made right around the time that a sophisticated elite were in the middle of trying to conquer good bits of Asia, Africa, and the known western world.

Quote:So the question is, if Jesus did not exist, how did the stories start? For me, I think there was a 'man' called Yeshua and he was an apocalyptic prophet of the Jews who spoke against their beliefs. They didn't like it so they brought up charges against him and had him killed.

I can understand how the supernatural stories might be called a myth, but surely that myth had to have come from somewhere?

This is the most likely, rational explanation for a historical Jesus. It is more likely, that the Romans killed Jesus himself, if he had amassed any respectable size following. The Romans didn't like small sects springing up, at all. That's why they hung crosses all over the place. Don't screw around with us, or this is what's going to happen to you.

There was a lot of Christian material written around the time the early church formed. Lots of it contradicts what you would read in what we consider the Bible. If you read what is internationally and generically considered the Bible, give or take a few books, the entire NT has a decidedly pro-Roman tilt. 100%. And from a historical perspective, this is very, very fishy.

Question: Why and how did a bunch of fishermen write in flawless, Coine Greek?
Answer: They didn't.

Jesus also seems to resemble other Roman Godmen figures that were worshipped right around that time. It is more than likely that Christianity originated as a Jewish cult, that took on, initially, a bit of a Roman spin so as to increase its palatability. Christianity has a fairly dark history of incorporating pagan traditions from nearby religions, so that they can make it sound more truthful to the people who first hear about it. "Hey! That's in our religion! That must be truer then!" type of reaction.

What should be abundantly clear about its dubious origins is that the Jewish people still exist, and in that time period for the most part, outrightly rejected him as the messiah. It was Constantine that made Christianity famous.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/carlgregg/2...ti-jewish/

My Regards on your search for truth! Smile
His being rejected was prophesied in the old testament.

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26-04-2017, 11:04 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Quote:His being rejected was prophesied in the old testament.

This has little bearing on whether or not he meets the criteria for messiah.

Which prophecies, specifically, are you referring to? I know that there are a number that have been hijacked by Christians to refer to Jesus, when in fact they refer to the nation of Israel, such as 'The Song of the Suffering Servant' (Isaiah 53.)

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27-04-2017, 04:24 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 10:30 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 07:10 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  No response? Hmmm.
To which post Will?

Um, mine.

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27-04-2017, 04:27 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 10:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 10:54 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  Well there's different theories, but we have a bunch of big clues that Jesus wasn't the messiah that history, thankfully, left behind for us.


Hercules?

Good people have been confabulated upon since the dawn of time. Jesus wasn't the first. Claims about him just happened to be made right around the time that a sophisticated elite were in the middle of trying to conquer good bits of Asia, Africa, and the known western world.


This is the most likely, rational explanation for a historical Jesus. It is more likely, that the Romans killed Jesus himself, if he had amassed any respectable size following. The Romans didn't like small sects springing up, at all. That's why they hung crosses all over the place. Don't screw around with us, or this is what's going to happen to you.

There was a lot of Christian material written around the time the early church formed. Lots of it contradicts what you would read in what we consider the Bible. If you read what is internationally and generically considered the Bible, give or take a few books, the entire NT has a decidedly pro-Roman tilt. 100%. And from a historical perspective, this is very, very fishy.

Question: Why and how did a bunch of fishermen write in flawless, Coine Greek?
Answer: They didn't.

Jesus also seems to resemble other Roman Godmen figures that were worshipped right around that time. It is more than likely that Christianity originated as a Jewish cult, that took on, initially, a bit of a Roman spin so as to increase its palatability. Christianity has a fairly dark history of incorporating pagan traditions from nearby religions, so that they can make it sound more truthful to the people who first hear about it. "Hey! That's in our religion! That must be truer then!" type of reaction.

What should be abundantly clear about its dubious origins is that the Jewish people still exist, and in that time period for the most part, outrightly rejected him as the messiah. It was Constantine that made Christianity famous.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/carlgregg/2...ti-jewish/

My Regards on your search for truth! Smile
His being rejected was prophesied in the old testament.

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

> Citation needed.
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27-04-2017, 04:40 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 10:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  His being rejected was prophesied in the old testament.

Under your interpretation perhaps. That is, at best, a post-hoc rationaliztion.


Fuck, his meds wore off again...

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27-04-2017, 06:17 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(27-04-2017 04:24 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 10:30 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  To which post Will?

Um, mine.
I guessed that, but I went back a few pages and couldn't find it

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27-04-2017, 06:26 AM (This post was last modified: 27-04-2017 06:38 AM by SeaJay.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Will you move on to Islam when you are done? Because there are dozens of references to eternal damnation in there. I don't see you posting threads about whether child rapist Mohammed existed or if Islam is real. Or what about Greek "mythology" for that matter? All kinds of people suffered eternal torture there, such as Tantalus, who was made to stand in a pool of water beneath a fruit tree with low branches, with the fruit ever eluding his grasp, and the water always receding before he could take a drink. I don't see you asking for this to be debunked. Why not?
I'm not interested in other faiths

(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Because you have irrational fear that was imbedded in you as a child and you can't let go of your childish ways. Christianity is no more true than any of these other stories-myths-legends-lies-manners-of-control.
Correct

(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  You can't debunk Christianity and you can't refute Islam, but you can grow up and realize they are ridiculous lies used to control you.
That is what I am trying to do.

(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  You asked the question in Post 1 and I answered it. These stories exist to further a cause. J.K. Rowling wrote the Potter books because she needed the money to survive. Christians use hell and the fear of god to control you, to get your money and keep you in line. Why do you think you're still researching this bullshit and seeking the truth?
Brainwashed? Indoctrination? Fear?

(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Because Christianity was so good, it realized for it to succeed it needed a product the feeble-minded couldn't disporove, a product that offered answers to the great unknown and a product that used fear to convince you it was real, and they knew to do it when you were young and most impressionable.
Agreed

(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Clearly it worked on you. But you need to grow up.
I got that the first time you said it.

(25-04-2017 07:15 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Kim taught me not to assume people are trolls, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But if you're a troll, may you rot in hell. Big Grin
I'm not trolling, but fair enough.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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27-04-2017, 06:36 AM (This post was last modified: 27-04-2017 06:40 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 10:46 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  His being rejected was prophesied in the old testament.

Deuteronomy 18:10
"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, (yeah they practiced child sacrifice), who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,"

Omen reading was forbidden.
The role of of prophet in Hebrew culture, was NEVER to tell the future. It was to advise the people of their own day.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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