If Jesus Never Existed...
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06-05-2017, 06:17 AM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2017 06:50 AM by adey67.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 05:21 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:14 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Do you think that's possibly your subconscious minds attempt to get round the fact that the belief in the existence of an immortal soul is demonstrably false as explained in my post above ?

I'm not sure my subconscious and conscious thoughts are at odds here. I just don't believe there is anything that survives death, no soul no consciousness. Not until the resurrection as far as the bible is concerned.

Whether the resurrection results in a clone or not is another (interesting) topic, but as far as I'm concerned, we are maggot food when we cease to exist.

I think you might be confusing what I wrote with what brian37 wrote, I'm not interested in the clone theory of resurrection I'm trying to get your take on my assertion that your resurrection beliefs are a direct attempt to get round the fact that human souls are demonstrably false and that if this widely held belief is false how likely is it that other religious beliefs are also false, the fact that the major monotheistic religions require legions of apologists to bypass inconvenient truths and fallacies is a pretty good indication that there is a massive problem with religious belief.
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06-05-2017, 06:32 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 05:57 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  Time to grow up, SeaJay. Drinking Beverage
Could you please define 'grow up' for me? I'm not sure of the context in which you use the term

Rid yourself of childish fears. Think like an adult, not an ignorant child.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-05-2017, 06:34 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 01:53 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  But this forces me to think of the kinds of thought processes that keep me believing, and this, in turn, leads me to realise it is 99% out of fear that I remain in this flux. The 1% is that it still all might be true, but as you say and as your post is focused on "So what if it is all true?"

One of the first things you may need to do is stop dwelling on it. Set aside whether you believe or not and focus on living a decent life and having some fun. If you are a kind, caring person then you should have nothing to fear from a just god so focusing on the former should let you worry less about any judgement.

Eventually you may see that life without a god is exactly like life with a god except for the fear part.

Quote:EDIT: I have just fully realised that this is new to me; this feeling of sadness and like I'm turning my back on God. So on the one hand, I feel terrified because God terrifies me, and on the other hand, I feel guilty, and genuinely sad about leaving God. So more cognitive dissonance!

I think it's pretty normal to feel grief and anxiety over any life change even if you anticipate it to be a change for the better. Stop worrying about being worried and focus on what you can do in your life that is positive.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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06-05-2017, 06:38 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 05:57 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  Time to grow up, SeaJay. Drinking Beverage
Could you please define 'grow up' for me? I'm not sure of the context in which you use the term

Santa is not real, Santa is what your parents sold you.

Oh you agree with that? AWESOME, now apply the same logic to claims of magic babies with super powers.

That is what we mean by grow up. We promise you wont burst into flames or become a serial killer.

Many atheists here grew up with a religion, but we grew out of it because we questioned the fantastic claims and the more we questioned them the less they made sense. Just like YOU now accept Santa is merely a story your parents sold you when you were too young to have adult critical thinking skills.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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06-05-2017, 06:39 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 06:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:57 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Could you please define 'grow up' for me? I'm not sure of the context in which you use the term

Rid yourself of childish fears. Think like an adult, not an ignorant child.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Big Grin

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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06-05-2017, 06:41 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 06:17 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm trying to get your take on my assertion that your resurrection beliefs are a direct attempt to get round the fact that human souls are demonstrably false.

I just do not believe in a soul thing at all. I never have and far as I can tell I am perfectly content with that. So I would have to say the resurrection has no bearing whatsoever on souls.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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06-05-2017, 06:46 AM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2017 06:51 AM by SeaJay.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 06:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:57 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Could you please define 'grow up' for me? I'm not sure of the context in which you use the term

Rid yourself of childish fears. Think like an adult, not an ignorant child.

It isn't as simple as just, growing up though.

It's about core beliefs fashioned since I was a child and those beliefs reinforced due to an insecure upbringing. It's about obsessive thoughts, PTSD, intrusive thoughts, severe anxiety and Borderline Personality Disorder. My point is when you put all that together, my brain sometimes cannot process information like it should do. Being told it is time to grow up might be what I need to do, but, it is an almost 'hand-waved' statement that sounds way too simplistic to my ears.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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06-05-2017, 06:56 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Yeah, SeaJay, I think we've said it before but it bears repeating - I think you need professional help. And I don't mean it as an insult. As someone with OCD I am perfectly aware how powerless we can be when our brains go haywire. I'm sure there are professionals who can help.

Also, I so want to quote Bob Marley's "emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds" because the sheer, mind-boggling irony of him saying this in a song where he blathers on about prophets and fulfilling the book makes my head spin. Facepalm

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06-05-2017, 07:12 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(06-05-2017 06:41 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 06:17 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm trying to get your take on my assertion that your resurrection beliefs are a direct attempt to get round the fact that human souls are demonstrably false.

I just do not believe in a soul thing at all. I never have and far as I can tell I am perfectly content with that. So I would have to say the resurrection has no bearing whatsoever on souls.

Ok, I'll phrase it differently, the resurrection of the body at a time of Yahweh's choosing is in my view an apologetic to get round awkward theological inconsistencies and nonsense and even if you dispute this, as a stand alone doctrine it makes no more sense than the belief in a soul. The fact religion requires apologetics of any kind at all should be a huge red flag as to its validity.
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06-05-2017, 07:28 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
The Bible did/does not "teach resurrection".
We know when and why the concept of personal immortality arose, and in what context. The Hebrews didn't believe in personal immortality, and even Paul thought immortality was only for the saved.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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