If Jesus Never Existed...
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25-04-2017, 09:28 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:07 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So based on your logic, some sort of Bigfoot has to exist; after all if it didn't, why all the stories?
It's easy to see how stories about bigfoot came about. Or, at least I can think of a few logical reasons, but what I can't figure out is why the story of Jesus got off the ground in the first place.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 09:29 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Adding dragons to a tall tale makes it no more or less believable than the same story sans dragons.

Same goes for a purported "god" being human.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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25-04-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:28 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 09:07 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So based on your logic, some sort of Bigfoot has to exist; after all if it didn't, why all the stories?
It's easy to see how stories about bigfoot came about. Or, at least I can think of a few logical reasons, but what I can't figure out is why the story of Jesus got off the ground in the first place.
See my above post for where most, if not all, bible stories come from. As an add on to this, a lot of it is "Chinese Whispers" as well.

One person says something to another, and they pass it on, probably embellishing it a bit as well.

"Did you hear about that nice man who fed 5 people on the beach? He gave us all fish sandwiches"
"Tony just told me some bloke turned up on the beach, giving out food to 50 people!"
"John just told me about this guy, carrying bread and fish, and he fed 500 people with it"
"MATE! THERE'S A MAGICIAN ON THE BEACH, HE CAN MAGIC UP FOOD! WHAT? YEAH 5000 OF THEM APPARENTLY"

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25-04-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:28 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 09:07 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So based on your logic, some sort of Bigfoot has to exist; after all if it didn't, why all the stories?
It's easy to see how stories about bigfoot came about. Or, at least I can think of a few logical reasons, but what I can't figure out is why the story of Jesus got off the ground in the first place.

But it's the exact same "logic" as to why both came about.
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25-04-2017, 09:37 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:28 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 09:07 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So based on your logic, some sort of Bigfoot has to exist; after all if it didn't, why all the stories?
It's easy to see how stories about bigfoot came about. Or, at least I can think of a few logical reasons, but what I can't figure out is why the story of Jesus got off the ground in the first place.

Well, you certainly seem to have fallen for it. Wink
Why not some poor, illiterate, hungry, begger, who lived at a time when in the desert, a well told good story, might get you food and a night's rest in a good bed? Shy

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25-04-2017, 09:40 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
The following is from this article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ap...d-and-died It was posted in another thread (Why I Believe) but I thought it relevant enough to duplicate here.

"The historical evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is both long-established and widespread"
I wasn't aware it was.

I'm not concerned with the first piece of evidence concerning Josephus, as even Christians believe it is fake. But the second part is interesting:

"As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus’s negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of “Jesus, the so-called Christ”."

"From Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea (AD26-36) and Tiberius was emperor (AD14-37) – reports that fit with the timeframe of the gospels. Pliny contributes the information that, where he was governor in northern Turkey, Christians worshipped Christ as a god. Neither of them liked Christians – Pliny writes of their “pig-headed obstinacy” and Tacitus calls their religion a destructive superstition."

Surely if even one of these documents are genuine, then Jesus existed historically? Reason being, I can't see why Tacitus and Pliny would make this stuff up. It might be that the news they received was bogus, but they thought what they were writing was true.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:40 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  The following is from this article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ap...d-and-died It was posted in another thread (Why I Believe) but I thought it relevant enough to duplicate here.

"The historical evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is both long-established and widespread"
I wasn't aware it was.

I'm not concerned with the first piece of evidence concerning Josephus, as even Christians believe it is fake. But the second part is interesting:

"As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus’s negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of “Jesus, the so-called Christ”."

"From Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea (AD26-36) and Tiberius was emperor (AD14-37) – reports that fit with the timeframe of the gospels. Pliny contributes the information that, where he was governor in northern Turkey, Christians worshipped Christ as a god. Neither of them liked Christians – Pliny writes of their “pig-headed obstinacy” and Tacitus calls their religion a destructive superstition."

Surely if even one of these documents are genuine, then Jesus existed historically? Reason being, I can't see why Tacitus and Pliny would make this stuff up. It might be that the news they received was bogus, but they thought what they were writing was true.

You realize none of them were eyewitnesses, right? Josephus was the closest in years and was still a good 60 years later, and he was only writing things he had heard or was told.

The other 2 are merely reporting what Christians believe. They aren't "making stuff up".
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25-04-2017, 09:54 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:46 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 09:40 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  The following is from this article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ap...d-and-died It was posted in another thread (Why I Believe) but I thought it relevant enough to duplicate here.

"The historical evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is both long-established and widespread"
I wasn't aware it was.

I'm not concerned with the first piece of evidence concerning Josephus, as even Christians believe it is fake. But the second part is interesting:

"As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus’s negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of “Jesus, the so-called Christ”."

"From Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea (AD26-36) and Tiberius was emperor (AD14-37) – reports that fit with the timeframe of the gospels. Pliny contributes the information that, where he was governor in northern Turkey, Christians worshipped Christ as a god. Neither of them liked Christians – Pliny writes of their “pig-headed obstinacy” and Tacitus calls their religion a destructive superstition."

Surely if even one of these documents are genuine, then Jesus existed historically? Reason being, I can't see why Tacitus and Pliny would make this stuff up. It might be that the news they received was bogus, but they thought what they were writing was true.

You realize none of them were eyewitnesses, right? Josephus was the closest in years and was still a good 60 years later, and he was only writing things he had heard or was told.

The other 2 are merely reporting what Christians believe. They aren't "making stuff up".
Good points. He might have penned Jesus killed by Pilate, but he's obviously heard that from someone who heard it from someone else who had heard from...

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 09:55 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Well, Josephus was born in 37 AD, so that hardly puts him in any position as eyewitness regardless. When I think about all the Elvis sightings and apocrypha even in the age of television and radio (in my own lifetime no less), it becomes a little less mysterious how it could have gotten off the ground way back when.
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25-04-2017, 10:18 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:55 AM)Grauwyler Wrote:  Well, Josephus was born in 37 AD, so that hardly puts him in any position as eyewitness regardless. When I think about all the Elvis sightings and apocrypha even in the age of television and radio (in my own lifetime no less), it becomes a little less mysterious how it could have gotten off the ground way back when.

Exactly. In the modern times we can't even get things straight and that's with all the modern recording devices and the vast majority of the population being literate. It's not even remotely surprising how legends and such came about back then, especially when ignorance already made people susceptible to supernatural explanations and superstition.
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