If Jesus Never Existed...
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10-05-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(10-05-2017 07:57 AM)adey67 Wrote:  The holocaust deniers are deniers for ideological reasons mythicists are not, I do not know how you cannot see this.

No that's not correct. Mythicists are driven by their flawed ideologies. Whether it's Thomas Brodie, or Richard Carrier.

Look, please at least view this short video:





And read this blog post by Larry Hurtado.

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10-05-2017, 10:17 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 10:30 AM by adey67.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
If mythicists are driven by ideology then historicists' are likely the same I suppose you think of course all historicists are historicists' for non ideological reasons even the religious /religious dependent for jobs ones because of course they're perfect. Drinking Beverage
Hurdato gets pretty narky with people who don't share his views I mean how dare they, kinda telling.
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10-05-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
I cannot watch the vid unfortunately because my only internet is mobile and largely very expensive but thanks for taking the time to post.
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10-05-2017, 10:50 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 10:54 AM by Aractus.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
The video is of Bart at the Freedom From Religion Raleigh Regional Convention May 2-3 2014 (full video is here). Bart takes a question following his talk/lecture from a woman who asks "I can't see evidence archaeology or history for historicity". Bart responds as so:

"Yeah, well I do. That's why I wrote the book. There is a lot of evidence. There is so much evidence that - I know in the crowds you all run with it's commonly thought that Jesus did not exist. Let me tell you once you get outside of your conclave there is nobody who - this is not even an issue for scholars of antiquity. It is not an issue. There is no scholar in any College, or University, in the Western World who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.

"Now, that is not evidence. That is not evidence. Just because everybody thinks so doesn't make it evidence. But if you want to know about the theory of evolution versus the theory of creationism and every scholar in every reputable institution in the world thinks & believes in evolution, it may not be evidence but if you have a different opinion you better have a pretty good piece of evidence yourself.

"The reason for thinking that Jesus existed is because he is abundantly attested in early sources. That's why. And I give the details in my book. Early and independent sources indicate certainly that Jesus existed. One author that we know about knew Jesus's brother, and knew Jesus's closest disciple Peter. He's an eyewitness to both Jesus's closest disciple and his brother.

"So, I'm sorry, I respect your disbelief but if you want to go where the evidence goes I think that atheists have done themselves a disservice by jumping on the bandwagon of mythicism because frankly it makes you look foolish to the outside world. If that's what you're going to believe you just look foolish. You are much better off going with historical evidence and arguing historically rather than coming up with the theory that Jesus didn't exist."
- Bart Ehrman.

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10-05-2017, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2017 11:07 AM by adey67.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Double post sorry
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10-05-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Carrier never had an "ideology" He says he always assumed Jesus existed until he examined the question. THAT is not "ideologically driven".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-05-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
This sounds suspiciously like the 10/42 apologetic, he's abundantly attested to in early sources but the early sources are old and unverifiable they are not good sources having been written so long after the events they cannot be definitive proof or even definitive evidence. My point is there is room for doubt, I could be wrong or you could be wrong but only one of us seems to be willing to accept this.
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10-05-2017, 11:07 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(10-05-2017 11:04 AM)adey67 Wrote:  This sounds suspiciously like the 10/42 apologetic, he's abundantly attested to in early sources but the early sources are old and unverifiable they are not good sources having been written so long after the events they cannot be definative proof or even definitive

Not only that, but I'm not sure what mythicists he's talking about, but most that I've read and seen specially talk about the supposed evidence and break it down; it's not like they are ignoring it.
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10-05-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Except he's not abundantly attested to in sources, my bad.
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10-05-2017, 11:19 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(10-05-2017 09:58 AM)Aractus Wrote:  No that's not correct. Mythicists are driven by their flawed ideologies. Whether it's Thomas Brodie, or Richard Carrier.

I'm essentially a mythicist driven by theology, but not at all obsessed. Historicity doesn't actually matter outside of the field. Undecided

I wonder your obsession?

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