If Jesus Never Existed...
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25-04-2017, 12:13 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 11:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Actually, the opposite is true. I do not want Jesus to have existed because all my fears and anxieties concerning hellfire would evaporate. Also, I'm not taking anything at face value, which is why I am researching the topic.

He might have existed, or a combination of several people at the time. The lasting point is that he wasn't the messiah and just another person claiming to be.

That is the only point. You can't negate the fact he didn't do one thing the actual messiah, according to the jews, was really supposed to do. The death accounts are laughable (people rising from the dead and shit like that....nowhere else is that shit recorded -- no one wrote, "I saw uncle Ezra after that crucifixion. Looked good for being dead a month.")

Once you've peeled that part of the onion the whole christian faith falls apart. There is a good a reason the Jews don't believe the messiah came. Instead of worrying about if he existed, find out what the evidence is that he wasn't who he claimed to be (and whether he claimed it or others claimed it for him is very debatable). Because it's all out there and easy to find.

Many former Christian types are actually converting to Judaism for this reason..


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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25-04-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Quote:I have mentioned a few times for why I do what I do, but I'll mention it again.

Due to the 'intrusive thoughts,' I experience now and again, I have had a terrible time with anxiety and fear of going to hell, because most of my intrusive thoughts centred around the Holy Spirit. I've spent a lot of money on therapy during the last 7 years but not of it has really helped. Not long term.

Because I felt so terrible on times, twice I almost became a voluntary patient at a local mental hospital because I was barely coping.

The only way out of this living 'hell' I was going through, was to see if I could convince myself Christianity was false. That is why I come here to test my faith, to research secular academia about the history of Christianity. If I can convince myself Christianity isn't real, my phobia of hell, which as basically ruined my life since 2010, disappears.

Well that was the first belief I did away with on my journey out of Christianity so as Neil DeGrasse Tyson would ask you during a conversation like this, what evidence could I give to you that hell, specifically, is fallacious? I would love to help if I can.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
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25-04-2017, 12:23 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 12:13 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 11:23 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Actually, the opposite is true. I do not want Jesus to have existed because all my fears and anxieties concerning hellfire would evaporate. Also, I'm not taking anything at face value, which is why I am researching the topic.

He might have existed, or a combination of several people at the time. The lasting point is that he wasn't the messiah and just another person claiming to be.

That is the only point. You can't negate the fact he didn't do one thing the actual messiah, according to the jews, was really supposed to do. The death accounts are laughable (people rising from the dead and shit like that....nowhere else is that shit recorded -- no one wrote, "I saw uncle Ezra after that crucifixion. Looked good for being dead a month.")

Once you've peeled that part of the onion the whole christian faith falls apart. There is a good a reason the Jews don't believe the messiah came. Instead of worrying about if he existed, find out what the evidence is that he wasn't who he claimed to be (and whether he claimed it or others claimed it for him is very debatable). Because it's all out there and easy to find.

Many former Christian types are actually converting to Judaism for this reason..
I see what you saying. Basically, it doesn't matter how many references are found in manuscripts dated 'x' years after 33 AD. If there are no recorded secular entires concerning a Lazarus getting raised from the dead, it's very probably due to the fact it never happened.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 12:26 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 12:14 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  
Quote:I have mentioned a few times for why I do what I do, but I'll mention it again.

Due to the 'intrusive thoughts,' I experience now and again, I have had a terrible time with anxiety and fear of going to hell, because most of my intrusive thoughts centred around the Holy Spirit. I've spent a lot of money on therapy during the last 7 years but not of it has really helped. Not long term.

Because I felt so terrible on times, twice I almost became a voluntary patient at a local mental hospital because I was barely coping.

The only way out of this living 'hell' I was going through, was to see if I could convince myself Christianity was false. That is why I come here to test my faith, to research secular academia about the history of Christianity. If I can convince myself Christianity isn't real, my phobia of hell, which as basically ruined my life since 2010, disappears.

Well that was the first belief I did away with on my journey out of Christianity so as Neil DeGrasse Tyson would ask you during a conversation like this, what evidence could I give to you that hell, specifically, is fallacious? I would love to help if I can.
That's it. Nobody can tell me hell is not real because you cannot really research it like you can, Christianity. Sure we can see that hell isn't in the original Greek text (it's Gehenna). And we can research that Gehenna comes from Ge Hinnom, and Ge Hinnom was the Valley of Hinnom, which was a rubbish tip located SW of Jerusalem, and was kept continually burning, and was a place the Jews threw the carcases of dead animals and convicted criminals. But there's still the doubt.

However, if my entire faith upon being tested falls apart. Then I have nothing to fear. In short, I can't really research hell as well as I can research Christianity.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 12:27 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Jesus probably existed. But not miracles (or magic tricks ) , not virgin birth , not a god and not resurrection. It's more likely he survived the crucifixion. Jesus was 6-9 hours on the cross and death by crucifixion took several days . Between 2-3 days on average. Even Pilate was surprised with Jesus unusual "death " . It's also odd that Pilate allowed Jesus to be taken down from the cross for burial.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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25-04-2017, 12:30 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
So basic philosophical and historical proof that it was erroneously transcribed into Christianity and makes absolutely no sense being part of the religion would not convince you?

Because the belief in hell actually doesn't exist in a fair few different theological interpretations of Christianity. None of them would jibe with evangelicalism, but they would certainly be closer to what the early Church was trying to get across. And I daresay that modern evangelicalism has completely missed the mark in the first place.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
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25-04-2017, 12:53 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 10:22 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Apparently, this was written about Jesus in the Talmud

"Yeshua of Nazarene was hanged on Passover Eve. Forty days previously the herald had cried, “He is being led out for stoning, because he has practiced sorcery and led Israel astray and enticed them into apostasy. Whosoever has anything to say in his defense, let him come and declare it.” As nothing was brought forward in his defense, he was hanged on Passover Eve."

I can't understand why enemies would write of a Jesus they saw as an enemy if this Jesus did not exist.

EDIT: From the wikipedia

"The Talmud contains passages that some scholars have concluded are references to Christian traditions about Jesus (Yeshua). The history of textual transmission of these passages is complex and scholars are not agreed concerning which passages are original, and which were added later or removed later in reaction to the actions of Christians."

The Talmud was written several hundred years after Jesus died. It was written in about the 4th century AD.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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25-04-2017, 01:18 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 12:26 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 12:14 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  Well that was the first belief I did away with on my journey out of Christianity so as Neil DeGrasse Tyson would ask you during a conversation like this, what evidence could I give to you that hell, specifically, is fallacious? I would love to help if I can.
That's it. Nobody can tell me hell is not real because you cannot really research it like you can, Christianity. Sure we can see that hell isn't in the original Greek text (it's Gehenna). And we can research that Gehenna comes from Ge Hinnom, and Ge Hinnom was the Valley of Hinnom, which was a rubbish tip located SW of Jerusalem, and was kept continually burning, and was a place the Jews threw the carcases of dead animals and convicted criminals. But there's still the doubt.

However, if my entire faith upon being tested falls apart. Then I have nothing to fear. In short, I can't really research hell as well as I can research Christianity.

I can't tell you the invisible monster under your bed isn't real either.
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25-04-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Well then... let's just confuse the issue even more ... Angel

Ladies and Gents:
The Gospel of Judas

It's shits & giggles time. Wink


It's actually one of my all time favorites from back in the day. The day being about the year 280. Good times. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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25-04-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 09:28 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 09:07 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  So based on your logic, some sort of Bigfoot has to exist; after all if it didn't, why all the stories?
It's easy to see how stories about bigfoot came about. Or, at least I can think of a few logical reasons, but what I can't figure out is why the story of Jesus got off the ground in the first place.

Cause new sect need good public face and being prophet was a fad back then. Nothing complicated here.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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