If Jesus Never Existed...
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25-04-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 12:30 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  So basic philosophical and historical proof that it was erroneously transcribed into Christianity and makes absolutely no sense being part of the religion would not convince you?
Erroneously transcribed specifically about hell? Or do you mean Christianity in general?


(25-04-2017 12:30 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  fBecause the belief in hell actually doesn't exist in a fair few different theological interpretations of Christianity. None of them would jibe with evangelicalism, but they would certainly be closer to what the early Church was trying to get across. And I daresay that modern evangelicalism has completely missed the mark in the first place.
The thing is, Jesus did mention hell (Gehenna), and on the surface, it does sound like a firey hell. True there are a lot of verses that strongly suggest the wicked are simply destroyed, but there's the issue; like a lot of topics in the bible, it's all open to interpretation.

This is why I am trying to disprove Christianity as a whole, instead of topics (like hell) contained therein.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 02:26 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
The whole 'Jesus mentioned in the Talmud' topic is a good example of why I ask these types of questions. I'm trying to avoid the situation wherein I say "Ok that's that, I'm an atheist", only to find out the very next day that there's so-called irrefutable evidence that Jesus actually existed/Christianity is true. Evidence that might not shake your non-beliefs, but may well shake mine.

I understand I'm never going to know everything 100% for sure, but I am trying to alleviate the issues that might arise as much as I can by researching as much as I can. It might take another 24 hours or another 24 years. But I need to be sure about this decision to the best of my ability.

I've been Christian for a very long time, so I expect this might take some time.

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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25-04-2017, 02:28 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 02:26 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  The whole 'Jesus mentioned in the Talmud' topic is a good example of why I ask these types of questions. I'm trying to avoid the situation wherein I say "Ok that's that, I'm an atheist", only to find out the very next day that there's so-called irrefutable evidence that Jesus actually existed/Christianity is true. Evidence that might not shake your non-beliefs, but may well shake mine.

I understand I'm never going to know everything 100% for sure, but I am trying to alleviate the issues that might arise as much as I can by researching as much as I can. It might take another 24 hours or another 24 years. But I need to be sure about this decision to the best of my ability.

I've been Christian for a very long time, so I expect this might take some time.

After two thousand years where would this "irrefutable evidence" suddenly come from?
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25-04-2017, 02:39 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 02:28 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  After two thousand years where would this "irrefutable evidence" suddenly come from?

shhhhhhh from inside his head.

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25-04-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 02:26 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  I'm trying to avoid the situation wherein I say "Ok that's that, I'm an atheist", only to find out the very next day that there's so-called irrefutable evidence that Jesus actually existed/Christianity is true.

Keep in mind that evidence that Jesus existed would be separate from evidence that xianity is true. Did King Arthur or Robin Hood exist? There's some speculation that both are at least loosely based on historical people but romanticized into the mythological characters that they've become. Most atheists are pretty comfortable with the idea of some itinerant street preacher getting himself into trouble with the Romans because that probably happened multiple times. Whether one or more of them is at the core of the Jesus legend is pretty irrelevant in the end. The magical claims are wholly unsupported even if you accept the pretty flimsy evidence for historicity.

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25-04-2017, 04:09 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
I'm sure someone named Peter Parker lives in New York, but I doubt Spider-Man really exists.

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We all love to hear amazing stories.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-04-2017, 04:49 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
SeaJay is yanking chains...a lot of them who should know better than to fall for this
apologist.

He's afraid of hell and is convinced there was a Jesus of virgin birth who disappeared for most of his supposed life only to come into the picture so that he could be put to death and come back again to save souls.

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25-04-2017, 07:15 PM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 02:20 PM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 12:30 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  So basic philosophical and historical proof that it was erroneously transcribed into Christianity and makes absolutely no sense being part of the religion would not convince you?
Erroneously transcribed specifically about hell? Or do you mean Christianity in general?


(25-04-2017 12:30 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  fBecause the belief in hell actually doesn't exist in a fair few different theological interpretations of Christianity. None of them would jibe with evangelicalism, but they would certainly be closer to what the early Church was trying to get across. And I daresay that modern evangelicalism has completely missed the mark in the first place.
The thing is, Jesus did mention hell (Gehenna), and on the surface, it does sound like a firey hell. True there are a lot of verses that strongly suggest the wicked are simply destroyed, but there's the issue; like a lot of topics in the bible, it's all open to interpretation.

This is why I am trying to disprove Christianity as a whole, instead of topics (like hell) contained therein.

Will you move on to Islam when you are done? Because there are dozens of references to eternal damnation in there. I don't see you posting threads about whether child rapist Mohammed existed or if Islam is real. Or what about Greek "mythology" for that matter? All kinds of people suffered eternal torture there, such as Tantalus, who was made to stand in a pool of water beneath a fruit tree with low branches, with the fruit ever eluding his grasp, and the water always receding before he could take a drink. I don't see you asking for this to be debunked. Why not?

Because you have irrational fear that was imbedded in you as a child and you can't let go of your childish ways. Christianity is no more true than any of these other stories-myths-legends-lies-manners-of-control.

You can't debunk Christianity and you can't refute Islam, but you can grow up and realize they are ridiculous lies used to control you. You asked the question in Post 1 and I answered it. These stories exist to further a cause. J.K. Rowling wrote the Potter books because she needed the money to survive. Christians use hell and the fear of god to control you, to get your money and keep you in line. Why do you think you're still researching this bullshit and seeking the truth? Because Christianity was so good, it realized for it to succeed it needed a product the feeble-minded couldn't disporove, a product that offered answers to the great unknown and a product that used fear to convince you it was real, and they knew to do it when you were young and most impressionable.

Clearly it worked on you. But you need to grow up. Kim taught me not to assume people are trolls, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But if you're a troll, may you rot in hell. Big Grin

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25-04-2017, 07:24 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2017 07:27 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Quote:Erroneously transcribed specifically about hell? Or do you mean Christianity in general?

Hell specifically was erroneously transcribed into Christianity from Norse pagan religions. That's why the etymology of the word has its roots in Germanic 'Hel.'

Quote:The thing is, Jesus did mention hell (Gehenna), and on the surface, it does sound like a firey hell. True there are a lot of verses that strongly suggest the wicked are simply destroyed, but there's the issue; like a lot of topics in the bible, it's all open to interpretation.

This is why I am trying to disprove Christianity as a whole, instead of topics (like hell) contained therein.

Well we've already proven that you have absolutely no basis for believing Jesus was the Messiah or that anything he said was authentic except for cognitive dissonance so I don't know of any other way I can help you.

Perhaps this resource can put your religion to bed.

http://www.kyroot.com

Also, perhaps you should look up the roots of Judaism, which is what the 'Messiah' believed in, so you can discover that they are also deeply polytheistic and pagan in their origins.

Regards!

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-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
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25-04-2017, 07:36 PM (This post was last modified: 25-04-2017 07:49 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Excerpt taken from Kyroot.com

"The most absurd belief of Christianity

Christianity has actually convinced people that the just ‘punishment’ for living an average human life is an eternity of suffering. This is presented as what you deserve if you live a good life, doing your best, though, unavoidably, making a few mistakes along the way. But overall, you treat others kindly, pay your taxes, follow the laws, love and be loved, give to charities, help others, and try with all your might to be a good husband, wife, father, or mother. For doing just that, according to Christianity, God will send you to Hell. That is the default judgment. This is exactly what Christians MUST think is fair, or else they have no business following the faith.

[Image: Funniest_Memes_knock-knock-who-s-there-i...16896.jpeg]

Sure, they will say, yes, but you rejected the way out of this situation. But that is stupid- you can only reject that which you know to be true, and Christianity doesn’t even come close to demonstrating its truth."

So I'm hoping you can at least see from a philosophical point of view how a belief in hell has no place in a religion that actually believed in 'Sheol,' or the grave after death. They believed in a being who knew everything that you were going to do before you did it. This logically precludes, that there is no room within this religious train of thought, for a punishment, at least in an afterlife, for one's actions. If you look back at the OT, never once is any human being threatened by God with hell. Instead, he spends most of his time dealing out extremely painful punishments in THIS life for what most of us nowadays would see as trivialities. Most of the prophecies of the OT also elude to punishment for sin in this life, not another one. The fact that a large portion of Christianity daftly clings to such a toxic ideology, says sad things about its followers and much about the religion itself. I hope you can see how, philosophically, it is not good for an omnimax being to punish people for their decisions.

If you would like further clarification on the philosophy of it please let me know!

Regards!

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
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