If Jesus Never Existed...
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26-04-2017, 04:03 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 12:38 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  
(25-04-2017 02:28 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  After two thousand years where would this "irrefutable evidence" suddenly come from?
Perhaps some archaeological discovery. Perhaps a manuscript or, something.

LOL You think somebody might find an undead Jesus? Or ANOTHER manuscript?

You have an excuse to believe, so just go ahead and believe. You'll be no better or worse off than the billions who have pulled the same trick on themselves.
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26-04-2017, 05:10 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Avoid the situation in which you believe lies your entire life, constantly having conversations with yourself about everything that happens in life, good or bad.

Avoid the anguish and pain that religious teachings instill in your mind. Avoid the self loathing.

Instead choose a life that craves honesty.
Enjoy the moments of your life free from internal conversations within your head.
Treasure the moments you have with loved ones because this is the only life we are assured to have.

Make the most of your life. Leave your mark upon the world within those around you. Let the way you live inspire others to carry on long after you have passed away.

I've built homes and written a book.
I've raised children and grandchildren.
They all will live on well passed me and yet my mark upon the world will continue on.

When you focus your life into living, you gain so much more from the experience.

Religion takes those things from you and replaced them with fear. Then they tell you that they can take the fear away if you just do as they say and pay them money.

Those are mafia tactics.

A business owner fears his business will be burned down by the mafia so he pays the mafia for protection.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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26-04-2017, 05:41 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 12:38 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Perhaps some archaeological discovery. Perhaps a manuscript or, something.

So, 2000 years from now when some archaeologist finds a script for "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter" and a Spiderman movie will they have evidence that Lincoln hunted the undead or that Peter Parker had an Aunt May?

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26-04-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(25-04-2017 07:48 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I know some think Jesus did not exist, and some think he did exist but was merely human. This got me thinking if Jesus didn't exist, how did all the stories about him originate?

In precisely the same way that the "legend" of King Arthur, and Guinevere, Merlin, and Excalibur originated. That is, a combination of folklore, fanciful thinking, and literary invention.

I'm prepared to accept that a bloke called Jesus may well have existed, but not as the mythical, all-wise folk-hero he's depicted as by theists. And definitely not "the son of god" LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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26-04-2017, 06:12 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 05:41 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(26-04-2017 12:38 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Perhaps some archaeological discovery. Perhaps a manuscript or, something.

So, 2000 years from now when some archaeologist finds a script for "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter" and a Spiderman movie will they have evidence that Lincoln hunted the undead or that Peter Parker had an Aunt May?

"With great fantasy comes great ... fantasy." Big Grin
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26-04-2017, 06:22 AM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2017 06:45 AM by Cosmo.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
Quote:"Sure, they will say, yes, but you rejected the way out of this situation. But that is stupid- you can only reject that which you know to be true, and Christianity doesn’t even come close to demonstrating its truth."

The problem for me is that my reasons for not wanting to believe have less to do with how much I may believe Christianity and much more to do with the fact that I have a phobia of going to hell.

So that being the case, there's a small part of me that worries, if Christianity is true, then there's a judgement, and when I'm judged, I am more guilty than others because I was trying not to believe. And if I was trying not to believe, then it stands to reason that on some level, I did believe.

It's like I'll be told "You did believe but destroyed your faith to the point you did not believe. I can understand those that lose all faith - but you set out to deliberately lose your faith."

I'd be worse off than most. If that makes sense.

... Blink

In what sense? Is he going to make the fire hotter for you or something? Put you there longer? Is Dante's Inferno real?

You're telling me that you're deeply entertaining, to the point of terror, the idea that an invisible omnimax being will send you to hell, because for some, reason the quality that he valued the most was that you believed in his invisible existence despite evidence to the contrary? You had no basis for believing the religions truth claims, so you did not, and now you're going to receive more punishment than a rapist or a murderer because of god's totally fucking whacked out moral priorities?

Why are you not worried that Odin will send you to Hel, or that you'll go floating down the River Styx to Hades? Why are you not worried about Allah's judgement for not believing Mohammed was his prophet?

Do you see how having no basis to believe something is true is a really bad main reason to have for sending people to hell, and that this hell is just as real as the other punishments I've mentioned? Because if you do not I'm going to have to assume that you are in fact sheeple here to silently entertain some ridiculous religious objective that will totally backfire on you, or that you are a deeply irrational human being and that there's nothing more I can offer you.

Best of luck with your reading!

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-04-2017, 06:36 AM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2017 06:47 AM by Cosmo.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
... is it possible this random duplicate could be deleted? I went in to edit the post before and something weird happened. If not that's fine. Thanks!

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-04-2017, 08:39 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  ... Blink

In what sense? Is he going to make the fire hotter for you or something? Put you there longer? Is Dante's Inferno real?
Knowing my luck! But fair enough, you have a good point. It's just my anxiety making me think dumb things.

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  You're telling me that you're deeply entertaining, to the point of terror, the idea that an invisible omnimax being will send you to hell, because for some, reason the quality that he valued the most was that you believed in his invisible existence despite evidence to the contrary?
This is nothing new though. This what Christianity teaches. Believe and be saved or don't believe and be, not saved.

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  You had no basis for believing the religions truth claims, so you did not, and now you're going to receive more punishment than a rapist or a murderer because of god's totally fucking whacked out moral priorities?
I'm just saying that on the scale of things, I'd be on the lower end.

(bad) Atheist that never believed never believed.

(worse) Apostate Christians once believed but, for whatever reason, fell away

(worst) Me. I used to believe, then, deliberately set out to not believe due to a phobia

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  Why are you not worried that Odin will send you to Hel, or that you'll go floating down the River Styx to Hades? Why are you not worried about Allah's judgement for not believing Mohammed was his prophet?

I don't believe those religions are true. Yes I know how stupid that sounds, but that's part and parcel of a particular belief a person holds. All else are false except theirs. How do I know the others are false? I don't know, but I believe they are. And a Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu would say the same.

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  Do you see how having no basis to believe something is true is a really bad main reason to have for sending people to hell, and that this hell is just as real as the other punishments I've mentioned?
I hate it but that's how Christianity is.

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  Because if you do not I'm going to have to assume that you are in fact sheeple here to silently entertain some ridiculous religious objective that will totally backfire on you
I don't understand what you're saying here.

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  or that you are a deeply irrational human being and that there's nothing more I can offer you.
I'm not sure you're really saying anything here because all relgious folk are said to be deeply irrational human beings.

I'm trying to tear down my faith to the point I can say 'I no longer believe'. I am doing this due to the fear of hell which has pretty much screwed my life over for the last seven years. I've been in bits over it and almost signed myself into a mental hospital, twice. It has disabled me to the point that my existing medication (Mirtazapine) has been increased, and even put me on new medication (Citalopram).

So I guess yes, you are dealing with a deeply irrational human being. What you do with that is up to you.

(26-04-2017 06:22 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  Best of luck with your reading!
Thanks

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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26-04-2017, 08:54 AM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2017 08:58 AM by OakTree500.)
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
(26-04-2017 08:39 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  I don't believe those religions are true. Yes I know how stupid that sounds, but that's part and parcel of a particular belief a person holds. All else are false except theirs. How do I know the others are false? I don't know, but I believe they are. And a Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu would say the same.
...
I'm trying to tear down my faith to the point I can say 'I no longer believe'.
...
So I guess yes, you are dealing with a deeply irrational human being.

I've highlighted these points to talk about. Part of the overall problem is that you do believe in whatever it is you believe in, and that overall is irrational. The only way to move forward is to alter the way you think, try to start thinking in a logical and rational manner.

In point one you say you believe yours to be true. Logic would say "but I don't know, so therefore must treat them as equal", which pretty much ultimately invalidates you fears of hell, because every religion has something different to say about it.

Part of the problem is that you still have "faith" in the first place. Just because you don't want to have it doesn't mean you don't. If you can't shake off certain ideas, it means you still believe them. There is not point trying to rip holes in it, if you think it is true, regardless of what we're telling you. You need to start trying to think outside of what you know, and think about everything on a level playing field.

Take a step back from what you're doing, and really THINK about what everybody here is trying to say.

How do you KNOW, with 100% certainty that your religion/god is the right one? The answer IS, that you DONT KNOW, so therefore cannot guarantee this to be true.

I have a feeling that no matter who says it, and what is said, you're still going to cling to the opinion that its all real. The first step in this is you taking a step back and just really thinking about the issue. And when I say think, I mean like really contemplate it, not read the bible/look at Jewish texts etc for evidence of what you already believe, but just really take a huge step away from that, and think about it from a blank slate standpoint, and go from there.

Honestly, good luck with it all, but I don't think I can personally contribute anything else other than the above.

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26-04-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: If Jesus Never Existed...
And also, it looks like you should be more concerned with heaven than hell mate:
[Image: proof-that-heaven-is-hotter-than-hell-re...x10241.png]

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