If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
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22-03-2017, 03:14 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(21-03-2017 08:42 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 07:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  What the fuck is Fing?
It's fing? Where's the problem?
Ah you bourgeois peeps

And you know this how?

My father is from a farmers family. He worked as a tractor driver in a Kolkhoz in the USSR under your hero Stalin, and then for Nikita. Then he worked as a construction worker in the west. My mother worked as a factory worker until i was born, and her dad (my grandpa) as a factory worker as well.

So you know exactly i am burgeois how, you pompous, arrogant, ignorant fool?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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22-03-2017, 03:22 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(21-03-2017 09:28 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 08:46 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Historical materialism is not Utopian, it's materialist. I already devastatingly debunked the "commie as religion" card on the other thread.

Capitalism is fanatic, extreme, reactionary, radical. Communism is egalitarian. Revolution is necessary.

So, please tell me when and where you’ve lived under communist rule. I think many of us here would be interested in knowing details about your first hand experiences.

We can compare notes.

My family did, at least on my fathers side. My grandma lived under Wilhelm II, Weimar, Adolf, Stalin and Nikita....and decided to emigrate in 1960. Thats how awesome USSR communist rule was. She always told me how bad things became after the Russians/Stalin (your hero) took over. Even 2 cousins of my dad emigrated during the cold war, although they had to wait like 20y to be allowed to move (how great a freedom Facepalm ) and were quite possible discriminated against. After the cold war was over, More cousins decided it was better in the west. Havent heared any of them regreting their decision.

So go ahead, sitting at your PC across the pond, and tell us how awesome life was and would be under communism. Rolleyes
Too bad my grandma died 10y ago, so you cant tell her how awesome her life was under communist rule. Facepalm

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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22-03-2017, 03:27 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(21-03-2017 08:42 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 07:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  What the fuck is Fing?
It's fing? Where's the problem?

F'ing is the standard hack although around here we say fucking. Give it a try sometime. Tongue

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22-03-2017, 04:21 AM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2017 04:41 AM by Fred Hampton.)
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
I'll prolly have to offer a ca$h prize to get any of the smarty pantsers to watch the vid. Capitalists will do anything for $: ANYTHING! Thumbsup
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22-03-2017, 05:19 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(21-03-2017 08:46 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 08:07 PM)julep Wrote:  Thanks for clarifying.

I don't follow Dawkins, Harris, etc., either--haven't felt the need to be a particular kind of atheist. I don't see communism as a desirable or achievable political structure. Belief in the benevolent state/proletarian utopia is as fundamentally theological as belief in god or belief in the invisible hand of the capitalist market.

As for revolution and fanatics of every stripe, righting past atrocities with present atrocities isn't an objective that I can support.
Historical materialism is not Utopian, it's materialist. I already devastatingly debunked the "commie as religion" card on the other thread.

Capitalism is fanatic, extreme, reactionary, radical. Communism is egalitarian. Revolution is necessary.

Well, I see you've taken your ball and left the game, but I'll respond anyhow.

I didn't say communism was a religion, I said that the idea of the benevolent, worker-controlled state is fundamentally theological. What I mean by that is that its underpinnings rest on magical beliefs about the way people should be and act. There is nothing egalitarian about communism as practiced, and that's convincing enough to me to reject it as meriting my support. I am not interested in theoretical communism.

Of course capitalism isn't particularly egalitarian, either, and free market capitalism has its own set of magical beliefs which can and should be critiqued. I'd have to admit that I'm not completely sold on egalitarianism as the core organizing principle of a society (I think that other principles are as important, and some of those undercut egalitarianism, at least insofar as I understand it).

Revolution that involves the institution of a communist system is going to make life shittier for even more people, so I'm hoping your revolution doesn't succeed--for your sake as well as my own.
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22-03-2017, 06:07 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(22-03-2017 05:19 AM)julep Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 08:46 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  Historical materialism is not Utopian, it's materialist. I already devastatingly debunked the "commie as religion" card on the other thread.

Capitalism is fanatic, extreme, reactionary, radical. Communism is egalitarian. Revolution is necessary.

Well, I see you've taken your ball and left the game, but I'll respond anyhow.

I didn't say communism was a religion, I said that the idea of the benevolent, worker-controlled state is fundamentally theological. What I mean by that is that its underpinnings rest on magical beliefs about the way people should be and act. There is nothing egalitarian about communism as practiced, and that's convincing enough to me to reject it as meriting my support. I am not interested in theoretical communism.

Of course capitalism isn't particularly egalitarian, either, and free market capitalism has its own set of magical beliefs which can and should be critiqued. I'd have to admit that I'm not completely sold on egalitarianism as the core organizing principle of a society (I think that other principles are as important, and some of those undercut egalitarianism, at least insofar as I understand it).

Revolution that involves the institution of a communist system is going to make life shittier for even more people, so I'm hoping your revolution doesn't succeed--for your sake as well as my own.
It's not theological, or magical, or Utopian--it's a f'ing empirical, material science. I covered this ad nauseum in the 'Anarchism, Communism" thread, with links!

Capitalism is the antithesis of egalitarian, that's the whole point of it: rulers/ruled. What are these "other organizing principals" you see as "better" than egalitarianism?
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22-03-2017, 08:07 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(22-03-2017 06:07 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 05:19 AM)julep Wrote:  Well, I see you've taken your ball and left the game, but I'll respond anyhow.

I didn't say communism was a religion, I said that the idea of the benevolent, worker-controlled state is fundamentally theological. What I mean by that is that its underpinnings rest on magical beliefs about the way people should be and act. There is nothing egalitarian about communism as practiced, and that's convincing enough to me to reject it as meriting my support. I am not interested in theoretical communism.

Of course capitalism isn't particularly egalitarian, either, and free market capitalism has its own set of magical beliefs which can and should be critiqued. I'd have to admit that I'm not completely sold on egalitarianism as the core organizing principle of a society (I think that other principles are as important, and some of those undercut egalitarianism, at least insofar as I understand it).

Revolution that involves the institution of a communist system is going to make life shittier for even more people, so I'm hoping your revolution doesn't succeed--for your sake as well as my own.
It's not theological, or magical, or Utopian--it's a f'ing empirical, material science. I covered this ad nauseum in the 'Anarchism, Communism" thread, with links!

Capitalism is the antithesis of egalitarian, that's the whole point of it: rulers/ruled. What are these "other organizing principals" you see as "better" than egalitarianism?

Organizing principals...they're the ones who keep track of the paperclips, right? Smile

Political philosophy is not a hard science. If only there was evidence about how communism works as practiced...wait a minute! There are several posts in this very thread about life under various communist systems! Why aren't you addressing them?

And...I didn't say better organizing principles than egalitarianism, just principles that are as important/relevant to me that seem to clash with it and that need to be adjudicated in some way when conflicts arise. How to allocate resources, protect the planet, motivate production, treat people with widely differing capacities and needs, etc.

Nor did I praise capitalism.
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22-03-2017, 08:48 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(22-03-2017 08:07 AM)julep Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 06:07 AM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  It's not theological, or magical, or Utopian--it's a f'ing empirical, material science. I covered this ad nauseum in the 'Anarchism, Communism" thread, with links!

Capitalism is the antithesis of egalitarian, that's the whole point of it: rulers/ruled. What are these "other organizing principals" you see as "better" than egalitarianism?

Organizing principals...they're the ones who keep track of the paperclips, right? Smile

Political philosophy is not a hard science. If only there was evidence about how communism works as practiced...wait a minute! There are several posts in this very thread about life under various communist systems! Why aren't you addressing them?

And...I didn't say better organizing principles than egalitarianism, just principles that are as important/relevant to me that seem to clash with it and that need to be adjudicated in some way when conflicts arise. How to allocate resources, protect the planet, motivate production, treat people with widely differing capacities and needs, etc.

Nor did I praise capitalism.
Historical materialism is as "hard" as any other "hard" science. It conforms to the scientific method. I addressed the various, usually uninformed allegations re "life under comm" at length in the "Anarch, Comm" thread.

Bolded: well if you read the "live time" writings of Mao during the Culural Rev and Great Leap and all the problems that arose and were addressed and attempted to be addressed, it is the best source I know of on the planet. Though, there isnt much about "environmentalism" in there.
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22-03-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(22-03-2017 03:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(21-03-2017 08:42 PM)Fred Hampton Wrote:  It's fing? Where's the problem?

F'ing is the standard hack although around here we say fucking. Give it a try sometime. Tongue

OMG really?

I would prefer that everyone that finds the word fucking offensive enough to hide it behind some weird abbreviation just pick another fucking word.

Or add an asterisk to it...But still just pick another fucking word that you're not ashamed to spell out.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-03-2017, 10:05 AM
RE: If Jesus Was A Revolutionary...
(22-03-2017 09:52 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(22-03-2017 03:27 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  F'ing is the standard hack although around here we say fucking. Give it a try sometime. Tongue

OMG really?

I would prefer that everyone that finds the word fucking offensive enough to hide it behind some weird abbreviation just pick another fucking word.

Or add an asterisk to it...But still just pick another fucking word that you're not ashamed to spell out.

That’s just freaking prudish. Angel

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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