"If atheism were true...."
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16-05-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 05:26 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  If atheism is true.....
blah blah blah...philosophistry, bullshit, blah blah blah...

Atheism does not claim anything and cannot be called either "true" or "false". Atheism is non-belief in your bullshit fairy tales. It has no tenets, no doctrine, no dogma, and consists of nothing but "I don't buy your snake oil bullshit".

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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16-05-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 06:19 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 09:36 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  What atheists should be doing is challenging theists to prove their claims in forums like we do here, where we can fact-check, verify, research, and give thorough and well-considered responses and rebuttals to their batshit claims.
Facepalm

You make it sound like you're getting something accomplished - too bad your plan only works at debating theism, and does not advance secularism.


Who the fuck asked you to babble on some fucking tangent?


Quote:I can hear Harris now; "I will not debate you live, but please join me at TheThinkingAtheist forum for a real debate, and we'll get to the bottom of this." Laugh out load

Harris has his own forum, didn't you know, asswipe? Go fuck yourself.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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16-05-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 06:29 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 05:15 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  "True" and "false" apply to claims. Atheism isn't a claim. It is a lack of something. Any claims made thereafter are incidental and reflect only the sentiments of the individual atheist in question.

Which is precisely why people who engage in formal debate study their opponent's views and arguments BEFORE engaging in debate with them.

Except Craig (and his asshole toadies like you) doesn't address his opponent's views; he erects a shitload of straw men and flails at them, hoping no one will notice the switch.


Quote:Something I have stated before but which fell on deaf ears here...

So, here you go again, after being fucking mauled you start the same shit over again. Dumbass.


Quote:That is why Sam Harris does not object to Craig's usage of the term.

Harris didn't object because he is a piss-poor debater.

Quote: Craig knows Harris is a man who does not believe in God. And Harris does not hide behind the whole "atheism is not a claim" defense that is seen propagated primarily on infidel forums.

That's not hiding at all, asshole. And crying about it over and over ad nauseum doesn't make it so.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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16-05-2014, 08:55 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 06:35 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 05:54 AM)RogueWarrior Wrote:  This is what happens when you allow the same word, atheism, to mean 2 completely different but related things.

WLC is taking atheism to be the position that there are no gods. Which is a positive assertion by those who take it. He is shifting the burden (standard for him).

This is the theist-created definition of atheism, which of course suits them to a T.
By allowing theists to keep twisting the definition of atheism to mean belief in the non-existence of gods instead of simple disbelief that there are gods, we are doing ourselves a disservice.

Dr. Craig debates with men and women who are non-theists.


He's a doctor like I'm a fucking astronaut.


Quote:In fact, most of the people I have seen him debate refer to themselves as non-theists.

A non-theist does not believe God exists.



A non-theist doesn't believe in god-claims. Big difference you need to learn, moron.

Quote:The confusion is only found here in forums like this.


There is not fucking confusion.



Quote: In the academy, people who are not theists do have arguments and defenses for their views. They recognize that to claim their position is one that does not need defending is simply wishful thinking.


In WHAT fucking "academy"? Fucking Biola doesn't count.


Quote:Only on these forums will people try to claim that their beliefs are beyond reproach and need no defense because they just so happen to label themselves as atheists.

Atheism isn't a fucking belief, idiot.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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16-05-2014, 08:55 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
Infidel forums! Welp, so much for thinking he might be an honestly critical thinker. Nope, the bias is strong in this one. And yes, I know I should never have thought for a moment that he was a critical thinker... it's just that I thought for a moment that he might be really open to thinking. No. No of course not. Because we're all infidels to him.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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16-05-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:35 AM)Impulse Wrote:  You may be right, but if that's really what he means then that's what he should actually say.

Why? Because you think so?

The people he debates understand him perfectly. The people in the audience to my recollection never stand up and tell him he is wrong for using the term in the sense he does.

The people he debates don't catch that he is attempting to shift the burden of proof and to cast atheism as a belief system and atheism and theism as if they were competing belief systems on "equal footing".

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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16-05-2014, 09:03 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 08:54 AM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  No, it's because WLC is an intellectually dishonest skid-mark who warps language to fool the listener.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/William_Lane_Craig

http://www.uncrediblehallq.net/2011/06/0...followers/


"You don't have to read books, just pretend you have and lie about it."


- WLC

http://barefootbum.blogspot.com/2010/07/...l.html?m=1

I am sure he would love to hear you say these things.

NO, he would hate to see them, because they expose him for the lying rat that he is. He will NEVER show up in a forum like this one because he knows that any one of the regulars and many of the infrequent posters could and would wipe his sorry ass all over the walls, just like we do you and every other proselytizing idiot apologist that comes in here.

Quote: I myself smile when I read them and think of what Christopher Hitchens once said about people resorting to ad hominems.


He loved it when people resorted to ad hominem attacks because this let him know that they had nothing to say against his arguments.

Craig no doubt feels the same way, just as I do.

Except that the ad hominems here are delivered along with withering arguments that destroy you at every turn. But you are too fucking stupid and delusional to figure that out.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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16-05-2014, 09:07 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
Regarding the alleged ad hominems:
"Resorting to" is quite a lot different than "accompanied by."

Also, insults are not all "ad hominems." Just so you know.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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16-05-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 07:34 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 06:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, the category error here is yours. You ascribe attributes of belief to a lack of belief. That is a major failure.

There is no god - belief in god is an error.

You acknowledge that your concept of non-belief is compromised when you accept the classification of atheism as describing your knowledge of the difference.

You are ascribing something different than knowledge to what belief is - you believe atheism is true and admirable, and the people who share that value seem more acceptable, don't you???

Humanism is the better designation for what you want atheism to mean.

First, don't fucking tell me what I believe.

Second, don't put words in my mouth.

Third, for the very last time - I lack belief in any gods due to lack of evidence.

Your definitions are yours and yours only. Stuff them up your ass.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 09:11 PM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 11:07 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 10:26 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If not believing bullshit is true, then what does that imply ?

It implies that the non-believer is using his or her brain to think rationally.
When I don't take extraordinary claims with no evidence to heart, it merely means my mind is functioning normally, skeptically and critically when it comes to the evaluation of those claims.

If atheism is true, meaning if atheism exists then, ....blah blah blah.
Since atheism does exist, does it follow that blah blah blah is correct ?

It's like saying, if the sun gives off light, then purple unicorns exist, which they don't, so making these kinds of statements is really just useless, unless you're trying to intentionally be deceptive in the way you use language.

Since we're talking about WLC, you can bet he's being intentionally deceptive.

don't cry because the man uses the word in a way you think is wrong.

atheists themselves are not even in agreement with what the term means. I can ask five different atheists what atheism means and get five different answers.

Atheism in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

So when Craig says: "on an atheistic view of reality" for example, he is simply saying "on a view of reality that does not include God"....

....which statement disingenuously presupposes the existence of said fairy tale monster.



Quote:This is not rocket science. It is not mysterious. Its not hard to understand nor has he deceived anybody.

No, it's fucking Three-Card Monte.


Quote:Get over it.

Fuck you.


Quote:Atheists make truth claims like everybody else.

Incorrect. We make the observation that you assholes have failed to meet your burden of proof.



Quote: If they demand support from people for the claims they make then they will also be expected to support their claims.

We don't have any fucking claims. "Look- the Emperor Has No Fucking Clothes" is not a claim. It is an observation of fact.


Quote:Atheists do not have special privileges when it comes to supporting their views just because they throw up the whole I lacke belief in God.

Learn English or get the fuck out.

That's right, demanding that you meet your burden of proof or shut the fuck up isn't a "special privilege" at all.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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