"If atheism were true...."
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16-05-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:46 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 08:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  You keep asserting that non-belief is a belief.

This has to do with the ontology of belief/knowledge - remember that discussion? Did we reach any conclusions that we rely upon for further discussions?

If atheists and theists have absolute disagreements at these junctures of reasoning - you should recognize why the rest of our social organization and politics is messed up.

This error didn't mean as much as it does now, when the margin of human error is being narrowed because of the improvements in technology - forty, fifty years ago, common Christians didn't have to worry about these arguments. Now they do, and you think you are going to insisted that all the words in the dictionary are scientifically determined??? Science is your standard - is it not?

Carry on with the crazy - you do it so well. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:45 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why? Because you think so?
Because language is for communication and if someone is communicating something other than their intended meaning when they could communicate more accurately, then they should do so, don't you think?

(16-05-2014 09:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The people he debates understand him perfectly. The people in the audience to my recollection never stand up and tell him he is wrong for using the term in the sense he does.
Understanding his meaning is really the ONLY explanation you can think of for people not correcting him?

Why would I correct you for saying something if you did not need correction for saying what you have said?

The people he debates with obviously do not feel the need to correct him because if they did, they would and boom they would show all present that he does not even know how to properly use the term atheism.

Unless you think you are smarter than the people Craig debates and that you could do.better?
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16-05-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:35 AM)Impulse Wrote:  You may be right, but if that's really what he means then that's what he should actually say.

Why? Because you think so?

The people he debates understand him perfectly. The people in the audience to my recollection never stand up and tell him he is wrong for using the term in the sense he does.

Why? Because he uses that phrase to confuse and misdirect people. And he is somewhat successful at that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:43 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You have beliefs just like everybody else. You have a worldview just like everybody else. Just because you do not believe in God does not mean you do not have a worldview or beliefs or a particular paradigm that explains your perceptions of reality.

Of course I have a worldview, but that's not the point. Non-belief is not a belief.

Your non-answers and deflections are tedious.

When people talk about their beliefs, they talk about them in relation to their referrent.

You believe "in" or you believe "that" blah blah blah.

So when it comes to.the big boy questions like "why am I here?" or "does life have meaning?"

You would say well I do not believe in God but I do believe that blah blah blah...

Non belief in one area will determine your beliefs in others.
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16-05-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Why? Because you think so?

The people he debates understand him perfectly. The people in the audience to my recollection never stand up and tell him he is wrong for using the term in the sense he does.

Why? Because he uses that phrase to confuse and misdirect people. And he is somewhat successful at that.

the poor intellectually dishonest baffoon Craig is successful at misleading some of the most intellectually honest and smartest atheists in the academy?

Wow!

You give him a lot of credit!
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16-05-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:56 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course I have a worldview, but that's not the point. Non-belief is not a belief.

Your non-answers and deflections are tedious.

When people talk about their beliefs, they talk about them in relation to their referrent.

You believe "in" or you believe "that" blah blah blah.

So when it comes to.the big boy questions like "why am I here?" or "does life have meaning?"

You would say well I do not believe in God but I do believe that blah blah blah...

Non belief in one area will determine your beliefs in others.

No, it doesn't. It simply removes one possible view.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:58 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why? Because he uses that phrase to confuse and misdirect people. And he is somewhat successful at that.

the poor intellectually dishonest baffoon Craig is successful at misleading some of the most intellectually honest and smartest atheists in the academy?

Wow!

You give him a lot of credit!

No, nice try. He misleads those in the audience. We were talking about the audience, remember?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:56 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  When people talk about their beliefs, they talk about them in relation to their referrent.

You believe "in" or you believe "that" blah blah blah.

So when it comes to.the big boy questions like "why am I here?" or "does life have meaning?"

You would say well I do not believe in God but I do believe that blah blah blah...

Non belief in one area will determine your beliefs in others.

No, it doesn't. It simply removes one possible view.

thereby determining that your views cannot entail the one removed.
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16-05-2014, 10:10 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2014 10:14 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course I have a worldview, but that's not the point.
Your "worldview." I suppose that is the atheist response to religion - "worldview" is the word you prefer for "religion without a god"???Laughat

I'll bet the Christians understand "worldview" as the same thing as religion, and your argument against that will fail, because of another atheist argument that is more compelling.

(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Non-belief is not a belief.
It is once you are introduced to the possibility of the belief.

(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your non-answers and deflections are tedious.

You keep at him - sooner, or later, you'll get through to him.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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16-05-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:58 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  the poor intellectually dishonest baffoon Craig is successful at misleading some of the most intellectually honest and smartest atheists in the academy?

Wow!

You give him a lot of credit!

No, nice try. He misleads those in the audience. We were talking about the audience, remember?

You must have been the one in the audience who fell prey to his powers.
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