"If atheism were true...."
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16-05-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Non-belief is not a belief.

Agreed.

Claiming that non-belief is a belief is like claiming that non-stamp collecting is a hobby.
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16-05-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
If not believing bullshit is true, then what does that imply ?

It implies that the non-believer is using his or her brain to think rationally.
When I don't take extraordinary claims with no evidence to heart, it merely means my mind is functioning normally, skeptically and critically when it comes to the evaluation of those claims.

If atheism is true, meaning if atheism exists then, ....blah blah blah.
Since atheism does exist, does it follow that blah blah blah is correct ?

It's like saying, if the sun gives off light, then purple unicorns exist, which they don't, so making these kinds of statements is really just useless, unless you're trying to intentionally be deceptive in the way you use language.

Since we're talking about WLC, you can bet he's being intentionally deceptive.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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16-05-2014, 10:27 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2014 10:35 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:20 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Claiming that non-belief is a belief is like claiming that non-stamp collecting is a hobby.

Category error: beliefs are abstract entities and hobbies are concrete entities. And it relies back to the ontology of beliefs - your probably going to contradict your arguments there if you pursue this.

quote='Wikipedia, 2014.05.16'
A category mistake, or category error, is a semantic or ontological error in which things belonging to a particular category are presented as if they belong to a different category,[1] or, alternatively, a property is ascribed to a thing that could not possibly have that property. Thomas Szasz argued that minds are not the sort of things that can be said to be diseased or ill because they belong to the wrong category and that "illness" is a term that can only be ascribed to things like the body; saying that the mind is ill is a misuse of words. Another example is the metaphor "time crawled", which if taken literally is not just false but a category mistake. To show that a category mistake has been committed one must typically show that once the phenomenon in question is properly understood, it becomes clear that the claim being made about it could not possibly be true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake /quote

How about...
Quote:Atheism is a religion, like bald is a hair color

Double category error!

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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16-05-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:09 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 10:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't. It simply removes one possible view.

thereby determining that your views cannot entail the one removed.

And that does not determine which of any number of other views one might hold.

So, your statement was incorrect.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 10:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, nice try. He misleads those in the audience. We were talking about the audience, remember?

You must have been the one in the audience who fell prey to his powers.

Oh, fuck you, you disingenuous twat.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:10 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course I have a worldview, but that's not the point.
Your "worldview." I suppose that is the atheist response to religion - "worldview" is the word you prefer for "religion without a god"???Laughat

Your stupid is overbalancing your crazy.

Quote:I'll bet the Christians understand "worldview" as the same thing as religion, and your argument against that will fail, because of another atheist argument that is more compelling.

(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Non-belief is not a belief.
It is once you are introduced to the possibility of the belief.

No, it's not. You are making an illogical statement.

Quote:
(16-05-2014 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your non-answers and deflections are tedious.

You keep at him - sooner, or later, you'll get through to him.

I've given up trying to get through to either him or you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-05-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 09:51 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 09:45 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Because language is for communication and if someone is communicating something other than their intended meaning when they could communicate more accurately, then they should do so, don't you think?

Understanding his meaning is really the ONLY explanation you can think of for people not correcting him?

Why would I correct you for saying something if you did not need correction for saying what you have said?

The people he debates with obviously do not feel the need to correct him because if they did, they would and boom they would show all present that he does not even know how to properly use the term atheism.

Unless you think you are smarter than the people Craig debates and that you could do.better?
All you just did was reassert the very same thing.
1) It DOES need correcting, because it is incorrect. (duh)
2) It is NOT obvious how people he debates feel or think just because you can't think of another reason why they might not bother to do so.

Care to actually answer the questions now?

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-05-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 10:05 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, nice try. He misleads those in the audience. We were talking about the audience, remember?

You must have been the one in the audience who fell prey to his powers.
Great answer! Because it shows you had nothing better. Drinking Beverage

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-05-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 10:26 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If not believing bullshit is true, then what does that imply ?

It implies that the non-believer is using his or her brain to think rationally.
When I don't take extraordinary claims with no evidence to heart, it merely means my mind is functioning normally, skeptically and critically when it comes to the evaluation of those claims.

If atheism is true, meaning if atheism exists then, ....blah blah blah.
Since atheism does exist, does it follow that blah blah blah is correct ?

It's like saying, if the sun gives off light, then purple unicorns exist, which they don't, so making these kinds of statements is really just useless, unless you're trying to intentionally be deceptive in the way you use language.

Since we're talking about WLC, you can bet he's being intentionally deceptive.

don't cry because the man uses the word in a way you think is wrong.

atheists themselves are not even in agreement with what the term means. I can ask five different atheists what atheism means and get five different answers.

Atheism in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

So when Craig says: "on an atheistic view of reality" for example, he is simply saying "on a view of reality that does not include God"....

This is not rocket science. It is not mysterious. Its not hard to understand nor has he deceived anybody.

Get over it. Atheists make truth claims like everybody else. If they demand support from people for the claims they make then they will also be expected to support their claims.

Atheists do not have special privileges when it comes to supporting their views just because they throw up the whole I lacke belief in God.
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16-05-2014, 11:09 AM
RE: "If atheism were true...."
(16-05-2014 11:00 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-05-2014 10:15 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  You must have been the one in the audience who fell prey to his powers.
Great answer! Because it shows you had nothing better. Drinking Beverage

Yea its easy to be sarcastic.

My point was that how would Chas know if someone in the audience at a debate had been deceived??
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