If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
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11-03-2014, 03:20 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 02:41 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:36 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  What makes you think that we're going to be 'cooked up' if we get to meet Satan?

That assumes that the Bible is true and not biased. People here make no such assumption.

The OP of this thread, and my post, both involve hypothetical situations. My hypothetical situation does not automatically warrant Satan being a torturer because I did not specify that religious scripture was true.

And even if we use your hypothetical situation, I would still want to know why I was being tortured and why Satan was following God's will when he has already rebelled. Wouldn't you if it was found that you had chosen the wrong sect?

It's God's will?

If not then why isn't this hypothetical god trying to save us all rather than only those devoted to worshipping and loving him?

From the perspective on those on Earth it looks suspiciously like a carrot and stick job giving people the choice of eternal paradise or eternal torture. A god would realise that and so would provide better information if it actually cared about the fate of the critical thinkers.

If Satan is not following God's will and is torturing people, then this would become apparent after the first question in which case the next questions would be:
  • Why do you want to torture people for an eternity?
  • What do you hope to achieve?
  • What are your ultimate ambitions?
  • Has it occurred to you that you have all these resources rejected by God for being free and intelligent thinkers and that you could put them to better use than to torture them?
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11-03-2014, 03:39 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 03:20 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:41 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  It's God's will?

If not then why isn't this hypothetical god trying to save us all rather than only those devoted to worshipping and loving him?

From the perspective on those on Earth it looks suspiciously like a carrot and stick job giving people the choice of eternal paradise or eternal torture. A god would realise that and so would provide better information if it actually cared about the fate of the critical thinkers.

If Satan is not following God's will and is torturing people, then this would become apparent after the first question in which case the next questions would be:
  • Why do you want to torture people for an eternity?
  • What do you hope to achieve?
  • What are your ultimate ambitions?
  • Has it occurred to you that you have all these resources rejected by God for being free and intelligent thinkers and that you could put them to better use than to torture them?

That is a fair inquiry into any supposed god, but this situation is quite particular.
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11-03-2014, 03:41 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 03:39 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 03:20 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  If not then why isn't this hypothetical god trying to save us all rather than only those devoted to worshipping and loving him?

From the perspective on those on Earth it looks suspiciously like a carrot and stick job giving people the choice of eternal paradise or eternal torture. A god would realise that and so would provide better information if it actually cared about the fate of the critical thinkers.

If Satan is not following God's will and is torturing people, then this would become apparent after the first question in which case the next questions would be:
  • Why do you want to torture people for an eternity?
  • What do you hope to achieve?
  • What are your ultimate ambitions?
  • Has it occurred to you that you have all these resources rejected by God for being free and intelligent thinkers and that you could put them to better use than to torture them?

That is a fair inquiry into any supposed god, but this situation is quite particular.

Zero points for non-answers... Drinking Beverage

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11-03-2014, 06:32 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
I rather like this notion of hell not really being any worse than heaven, but rather just different, and God wants to have a higher score in the end than Satan. God won the PR wars, then poisoned the well in the New Testament by labeling Satan "The Deceiver" so that he can't ever get in a word edgewise sense. So, if you're not Christian, you "go to hell", but it's really not any different than going to heaven; you just wear a different color jersey and stop hanging out with all the people with the different color jersey.

Given that we already know that YHWH can't be trusted by Christian's own apologetics, I think this idea is as plausible, if not more so.
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11-03-2014, 10:16 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 02:25 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:53 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Let's look it another way shall we.

If Satan did in fact exist, what would you ask him?
  • Personally I'd be asking why the christians say that he's going to torture us for 'rejecting' God when he himself rebelled against God. Wouldn't that just mean that he's doing God's will?
  • Why did he rebel against God? What's the other side of the story here?
  • Why is God sending the majority of humans who exist to this place and selecting the few who don't question to be with him. What does he want them for?
  • Is God going to need taking down?
  • Who and what exactly is God and what are his limitations?
  • Considering that Hell has the biggest share of all the free-thinkers, does this mean that Hell is a better place to exist for eternity?
  • Now that we're here it's obvious that the laws of physics are completely different to what we observed on Earth so why were we deliberately fooled? What are the laws of physics here?

None of that matters while you're being cooked up.

I thought you said you weren't an xtard.

I thought you said you only "sort of" believe in a god.

I thought you said you don't believe in an afterlife.



I smell troll shit.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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11-03-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 02:25 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 01:53 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Let's look it another way shall we.

If Satan did in fact exist, what would you ask him?
  • Personally I'd be asking why the christians say that he's going to torture us for 'rejecting' God when he himself rebelled against God. Wouldn't that just mean that he's doing God's will?
  • Why did he rebel against God? What's the other side of the story here?
  • Why is God sending the majority of humans who exist to this place and selecting the few who don't question to be with him. What does he want them for?
  • Is God going to need taking down?
  • Who and what exactly is God and what are his limitations?
  • Considering that Hell has the biggest share of all the free-thinkers, does this mean that Hell is a better place to exist for eternity?
  • Now that we're here it's obvious that the laws of physics are completely different to what we observed on Earth so why were we deliberately fooled? What are the laws of physics here?

None of that matters while you're being cooked up.
For a "non-Christian", you sure do say a lot of stupid shit.

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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11-03-2014, 10:30 AM
If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 03:39 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 03:20 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  If not then why isn't this hypothetical god trying to save us all rather than only those devoted to worshipping and loving him?

From the perspective on those on Earth it looks suspiciously like a carrot and stick job giving people the choice of eternal paradise or eternal torture. A god would realise that and so would provide better information if it actually cared about the fate of the critical thinkers.

If Satan is not following God's will and is torturing people, then this would become apparent after the first question in which case the next questions would be:
  • Why do you want to torture people for an eternity?
  • What do you hope to achieve?
  • What are your ultimate ambitions?
  • Has it occurred to you that you have all these resources rejected by God for being free and intelligent thinkers and that you could put them to better use than to torture them?

That is a fair inquiry into any supposed god, but this situation is quite particular.

*unrelated statement to cover for not having an answer*

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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11-03-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 04:42 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 11:14 AM)War Horse Wrote:  Ladies.... the safe word is... "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" Yes

Say it loud and clear so theres no mistake in what I hear. Angel

Big Grin Evil_monster

Now THAT'S going to be hard to say with a ball gag in your mouth Ohmy

I'll acquire one of those open ring gags..... now I know you'll just try to say the word like that..... I did Laugh out load

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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11-03-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 10:16 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(11-03-2014 02:25 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  None of that matters while you're being cooked up.

I thought you said you weren't an xtard.

I thought you said you only "sort of" believe in a god.

I thought you said you don't believe in an afterlife.



I smell troll shit.

I'd just assumed it was a given, based on the context of the thread. If the premise of the OP is that "God is real, and the scripture is accurate, what then?", then threatening non-submission with hell in that context only makes sense.

I suppose you could ask why a deist/pantheist/something-else would start a thread about assuming Christianity is right, but it doesn't necessarily mean "trolling". I'm taking it as an invitation to some unusual discussion. Given the recent postings of Dirch/Lion/Alpha/Ms Ming, I think I much rather prefer ShimmyJimmy.
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11-03-2014, 10:44 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(11-03-2014 10:41 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Given the recent postings of Dirch/Lion/Alpha/Ms Ming, I think I much rather prefer ShimmyJimmy.

All sliced from the same turd.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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