If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
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10-03-2014, 02:34 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 02:27 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 01:26 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  So I guess what I'm asking is if God did exist and scripture was true, whether or not you would submit.
You've avoided one main question in your assessment my dear.. exactly WHICH GOD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AND WHY?
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Its simply arrogant of you to dismiss all the OTHER GODS so please tell me why i should choose your specific God instead of thousands of other Gods?

I was referring to the major monotheistic conceptions of God because they're the most popular.
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10-03-2014, 02:42 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 02:34 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 02:27 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  You've avoided one main question in your assessment my dear.. exactly WHICH GOD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AND WHY?
[Image: 0.jpg]

Its simply arrogant of you to dismiss all the OTHER GODS so please tell me why i should choose your specific God instead of thousands of other Gods?

I was referring to the major monotheistic conceptions of God because they're the most popular.

Yeah, can you get them all to agree on a single unified set of criteria first? Then you can get back to us with specific definitions of Heaven, Hell, Sin, God, and how the whole Rube Goldberg mechanism works; then we'll be more than happy to give our opinions and judgement on it.

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10-03-2014, 02:46 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 02:42 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 02:34 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  I was referring to the major monotheistic conceptions of God because they're the most popular.

Yeah, can you get them all to agree on a single unified set of criteria first? Then you can get back to us with specific definitions of Heaven, Hell, Sin, God, and how the whole Rube Goldberg mechanism works; then we'll be more than happy to give our opinions and judgement on it.

Choose your poison.
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10-03-2014, 02:57 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 02:46 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 02:42 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Yeah, can you get them all to agree on a single unified set of criteria first? Then you can get back to us with specific definitions of Heaven, Hell, Sin, God, and how the whole Rube Goldberg mechanism works; then we'll be more than happy to give our opinions and judgement on it.

Choose your poison.


Already did... Dodgy



(10-03-2014 01:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 01:26 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  In a debate with William Lane Craig, Sam Harris said that if God did exist, and religious scripture was true, then he would want to do anything he could to secure his place in heaven.

Do you agree with him?

I don't think someone like Christopher Hitchens would agree, as he was a passionate anti-theist that seemed to not want to go down without a fight.

So I guess what I'm asking is if God did exist and scripture was true, whether or not you would submit.

Harris' response was more nuanced than that. He was defending his basis of secular morality saying that if Heaven, Hell, and Sin all actually did exist as contributing factors and if Heaven was the desired end goal, that would all still be a part of his moral landscape. I'm sure that Harris would require much better definitions of Heaven, Hell, Sin, and evidence for their existence, before he'd make such a decision.

But assuming that Heaven is kissing Yahweh's ass for eternity and Hell is eternal torture, I'll take burning in the lake of fire over submitting to that fucked in the head sadist. The god of the Bible, as described in the Bible, I am simply incapable of worshiping; I lack both the ability and the desire.

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10-03-2014, 03:09 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 02:34 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  I was referring to the major monotheistic conceptions of God because they're the most popular.
Hindu Gods are popular too you know? approximately 1 BILLION people believe in Hindu Gods and i'm pretty certain that's also "popular".

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
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10-03-2014, 03:22 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
Look,i didnt read trough the thread (ima lazy) and i iwill answer the question in the title. It depends,if god is anything like how the major religions portray him,then no. He's portrayed as evil tyrant,and in no way would i submit to him. I may regret the choice later,but atleast i was moral enough to not accept the tyrant

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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10-03-2014, 03:50 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
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(10-03-2014 03:22 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Look,i[sic] didnt[sic] read trough[sic] the thread (ima[sic] lazy) and i[sic] iwill[sic] answer the question in the title. It depends,if[sic] god is anything like how the major religions portray him,then[sic] no. He's portrayed as evil tyrant,and[sic] in no way would i[sic] submit to him. I may regret the choice later,but[sic] atleast[sic] i[sic] was moral enough to not accept the tyrant[sic]

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10-03-2014, 05:39 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 01:26 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  In a debate with William Lane Craig, Sam Harris said that if God did exist, and religious scripture was true, then he would want to do anything he could to secure his place in heaven.

Do you agree with him?

I don't think someone like Christopher Hitchens would agree, as he was a passionate anti-theist that seemed to not want to go down without a fight.

So I guess what I'm asking is if God did exist and scripture was true, whether or not you would submit.

When you say the "scripture was true", would that mean I have to accept everything along with stuff like the flood and tenth plague? If so, I'd have a real hard time with it. I'm sure I could work myself up to it given enough time, but it would bother the crap out of me.

If you mean simply that "God exists and Jesus is his son and died for our sins" without a lot of the other stuff, I'd have an easier time of it. My wife is Christian, but doesn't believe in hell or many of the other ugly parts of the Bible. I can't bring myself to believe it, but if I suddenly somehow found out God was real, I'd prefer this to what's actually described in the Bible.
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10-03-2014, 06:00 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
(10-03-2014 01:26 AM)shimmyjimmy Wrote:  In a debate with William Lane Craig, Sam Harris said that if God did exist, and religious scripture was true, then he would want to do anything he could to secure his place in heaven.

Do you agree with him?

I don't think someone like Christopher Hitchens would agree, as he was a passionate anti-theist that seemed to not want to go down without a fight.

So I guess what I'm asking is if God did exist and scripture was true, whether or not you would submit.

I don't know. I'm pretty stubborn..
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10-03-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: If god did in fact exist, would you submit?
Humans will confess to anything given sufficient torture, like water-boarding for example. The first thing I would have to figure out is the consequence of not submitting to a god that I was morally opposed to (like the god of the OT for example). If this meant that I would be subject to torture for eternity then there would not be a chance of fighting back so it would be pointless to choose that path.

An alternative is to readily submit and to subvert the status-quo from within. I would then have the chance to be part of a resistance movement.

Of course, as mentioned by others, it depends on which god and mythology we are talking about here.
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