If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
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19-09-2013, 05:33 AM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(17-09-2013 04:07 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(15-09-2013 01:49 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting. Your screenname is Hey would you blow me, and yet you think I'm talking shit?

I would not alter my behavior and that doesn't make me an idiot. I wouldnt bow to a man that was about to kill and torture me. I'd spit in his face and go down swinging than surrender to a tyrant like some kind of pussy.

If bowing down is the only way to prevent being tortured and killed, then you should bow down. If you wouldn't(I think your probably would in a real life situation) then you are an idiot.

With God the mistake of be defiant in magnified infinitely because in the scenario where you are killed, you suffering ends. With God, your suffering may never end. It can continue on and on and on and on and on.....long after everyone has forgotten your "martyrdom".

No one might ever even know you stood up to a tyrant god....including yourself. An omnipotent god could give you amnesia and you would be tortured for eternity not even knowing why. Sometimes...being the tough guy.....is outright stupid. This is one of those times.

So you proved my point exactly. Your God is capable of the worst form of murder and torture imaginable. No need to obey any commandments, nothing you could do, including raping an infant, would be worse than This God of yours. because if simply not believing will earn you this, it's not worthy of any worship.

And it's not about martyrdom, I wouldn't need anyone to know about God's torture. And in a "real life" situation, you think I'd be different? Nay nay. I successfully fought off my would be rapist. I literally spit in his face, which caused him to release one of my hands and I punched him in the windpipe.

So, Hey would you blow me, no, I'd go down swinging. Submission is not a good quality to have.
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19-09-2013, 05:47 AM
Re: RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(18-09-2013 01:36 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-09-2013 01:14 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I don't disagree with that being your premise... My claim is still the same.

Because the Biblical God doesn't deserve the praise he asks. An ultimatum like law of follow these rules you abhor on their fundamental basis or suffer the greatest punishment... shouldn't alter, an intelligent response.

Your response is, how high should I jump master?

I take the position that whether or not the Biblical God deserves the praise he asks is irrelevant. The situation is what the situation is and the intelligent response is to make the best of the situation. Just because you think the situation is bad, doesn't preclude you from making the best of it.

You seem to be working from a basis that, the intelligent/smart choice is what is best/better for you.

I don't agree with that mindset necessarily.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-09-2013, 07:16 AM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(19-09-2013 05:33 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(17-09-2013 04:07 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If bowing down is the only way to prevent being tortured and killed, then you should bow down. If you wouldn't(I think your probably would in a real life situation) then you are an idiot.

With God the mistake of be defiant in magnified infinitely because in the scenario where you are killed, you suffering ends. With God, your suffering may never end. It can continue on and on and on and on and on.....long after everyone has forgotten your "martyrdom".

No one might ever even know you stood up to a tyrant god....including yourself. An omnipotent god could give you amnesia and you would be tortured for eternity not even knowing why. Sometimes...being the tough guy.....is outright stupid. This is one of those times.

So you proved my point exactly. Your God is capable of the worst form of murder and torture imaginable. No need to obey any commandments, nothing you could do, including raping an infant, would be worse than This God of yours. because if simply not believing will earn you this, it's not worthy of any worship.

And it's not about martyrdom, I wouldn't need anyone to know about God's torture. And in a "real life" situation, you think I'd be different? Nay nay. I successfully fought off my would be rapist. I literally spit in his face, which caused him to release one of my hands and I punched him in the windpipe.

So, Hey would you blow me, no, I'd go down swinging. Submission is not a good quality to have.

The difference between God and a rapist, is with the rapist you have and opportunity to fight back. With God submission is the only option. If you fail to take that option you are a moron. With God there is no going down swinging.

Also, the God I believe in is irrelevant to the discussion. I am assuming for the sake of this argument that God is as evil as you claim Him to be. Why am I making this assumption? Why not, because this isn't a discussion about whether or not God is good or evil. This is a discussion about being smart or being an idiot. Challenging the biblical God would be the height of stupidity.

I understand what you are doing. You are trying to make a point that the biblical God is evil. I don't have a problem with you trying to make that point. I just think your belief that challenging such a God is going to come to any benefit is retarded and doesn't make a compelling argument whatsoever.

"I think God is so evil I would go to Hell just to prove how strong I feel". Well, I'm sorry but proving how strong you feel doesn't make for a compelling argument.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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19-09-2013, 08:09 AM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
Then by that logic, we can't assume that Satan is necessarily evil either, the supposed ruler of Hell. Maybe he is a lot nicer a guy than God. Maybe is he a fan of man, and therefore, going to hell is like going to a the Hot Springs of Costa Rica.

My point is that I will not ever. ever. ever. bow down to the God of the Bible, whether he exists or not. And your faith, based soley on your self preservation and fear, isn't faith at all, nor is it a compelling reason to comply. And that isn't being stupid. If self preservation was the only way to exist, we wouldn't have firefighters, navy seals, the coast guard, etc. because jumping into a churning ocean to save someone is - by your very logic - a "retarded" decision.

I personally think there is nothing worse than living in fear...and its something I refuse to do. So I'd rather burn in hell for an eternity, than spend an eternity in fear. What you don't seem to be grasping, is that for me, Hell is the LESSER of the two evils. I choose Hell.
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19-09-2013, 02:32 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(19-09-2013 08:09 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I personally think there is nothing worse than living in fear...and its something I refuse to do. So I'd rather burn in hell for an eternity, than spend an eternity in fear. What you don't seem to be grasping, is that for me, Hell is the LESSER of the two evils. I choose Hell.

You are afraid of being burned by the fire so you would jump into the fire to get relief from being afraid of being burned by the fire? Not a smart move.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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19-09-2013, 03:05 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(19-09-2013 07:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The difference between God and a rapist, is with the rapist you have and opportunity to fight back. With God submission is the only option. If you fail to take that option you are a moron. With God there is no going down swinging.

So, this is just Pascal's Wager. Limiting the context to that of a single well-defined God does make it more valid.

(19-09-2013 07:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Also, the God I believe in is irrelevant to the discussion. I am assuming for the sake of this argument that God is as evil as you claim Him to be. Why am I making this assumption? Why not, because this isn't a discussion about whether or not God is good or evil. This is a discussion about being smart or being an idiot. Challenging the biblical God would be the height of stupidity.

I understand what you are doing. You are trying to make a point that the biblical God is evil. I don't have a problem with you trying to make that point. I just think your belief that challenging such a God is going to come to any benefit is retarded and doesn't make a compelling argument whatsoever.

"I think God is so evil I would go to Hell just to prove how strong I feel". Well, I'm sorry but proving how strong you feel doesn't make for a compelling argument.

Yes. How dare another person have such a wrong opinion!

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19-09-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(19-09-2013 02:32 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(19-09-2013 08:09 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I personally think there is nothing worse than living in fear...and its something I refuse to do. So I'd rather burn in hell for an eternity, than spend an eternity in fear. What you don't seem to be grasping, is that for me, Hell is the LESSER of the two evils. I choose Hell.

You are afraid of being burned by the fire so you would jump into the fire to get relief from being afraid of being burned by the fire? Not a smart move.

Or maybe Satan honors those who defy God and provides pleasure instead of pain.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-09-2013, 03:58 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
Well I don't mind. All the righteous sods can go to heaven which means we won't have to put up with their bleating in hell. Sounds like a win to me.

How come it's always about "you should do X" with the holy joes ? I mean FFS free fucking will guys. I thought God was keen on that shit, unless you're a Calvinist, in which case *I got no choice but to be an atheist*, so *either way* will ya kindly respect my free choice, which God himself apparently respects, and go find someone else to moralize at.

^^ The above made with the tacit assumption of existence of dick-God.
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19-09-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
Hey would you blow me - I take issue with you insisting on calling any decision I make that isn't the decision that you would make to be "not smart" and therefore "stupid"

That's not an argument, nor is your position conviction in any true sense.

Please stop calling my decisions stupid. I heard your reply, I don't agree, but now you are just being a bully. It's behavior like that that gives theists a bad name.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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19-09-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(19-09-2013 04:24 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Hey would you blow me - I take issue with you insisting on calling any decision I make that isn't the decision that you would make to be "not smart" and therefore "stupid"

That's not an argument, nor is your position conviction in any true sense.

Please stop calling my decisions stupid. I heard your reply, I don't agree, but now you are just being a bully. It's behavior like that that gives theists a bad name.

Subtle, isn't he? Dodgy

And gawd said, all those that don't buy into this bullshit story shall be called stupid by those that do. Hobo

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