If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
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20-09-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 02:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 06:29 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Let's say it's not the Muslim god then. Let's say that God isn't real and this has all been an invention of Satan whose purpose in creating the universe was to not to have someone to love, but to have something to mess with. Let's say the god that is real is an objectively evil bastard who delights in the suffering of all created beings.

We can look at this two ways:
1. How evil would the god have to be before you actually stopped obeying them and started rebelling?
2. How evil would the god have to be before the thought crossed your mind?

You're arguing that (1) should be "never, assuming a god that is powerful enough to automatically make that a bad idea", but (1) isn't the interesting question. With (1) you are not a moral actor. You are constrained by the rules of the game to play along. The interesting question is (2). How evil would the god you worship have to be before you have that first involuntary flicker, that first uncalled thought, that stray idea that passed through your internal censorship unable to be blinked away quickly enough. A mind reading god might well kill you where you stand at that very moment, but since the thought was involuntary you weren't a moral actor there either.

How evil does the Christian god have to be before that stray thought crosses your mind? How evil does he have to be for you to have that first thought of rejection and rebellion?

If God exists, I would think He is the ultimate decider of what is moral/immoral. I could have an opinion but that's all it would be.

At no point did you address his question!!! How evil does god have to be before you have a flicker of a thought of disobedience? Or do you just do what you are told like a mindless drone?
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20-09-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 02:58 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 02:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If God exists, I would think He is the ultimate decider of what is moral/immoral. I could have an opinion but that's all it would be.

At no point did you address his question!!! How evil does god have to be before you have a flicker of a thought of disobedience? Or do you just do what you are told like a mindless drone?

I don't think "how evil" enters into the decision to be disobedient. Instead one should look at the cost and gains of disobedience. What does it cost me to be disobedient? Suppose it cost an eternity in a horrific hell. Is that price going to be worth the benefit of knowing I stood up for my moral principles?

Suppose God is good and commands that we should love everyone. Biill Gates offers me one billion dollars to join the Westboro Baptist Church for a month and wear a sign that says "God hates fags and you should hate them too". If God is still going to send me to Heaven, the cost of disobedience is small, and I would be much more inclined to disobey.

Mindless drones are people who don't go thru cost/benefit analysis regarding their decisions. They are people who allow their emotions to rule them. They are people who make knee jerk claims like they would rather go to hell then follow the Christian God.
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20-09-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 04:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 02:58 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  At no point did you address his question!!! How evil does god have to be before you have a flicker of a thought of disobedience? Or do you just do what you are told like a mindless drone?

I don't think "how evil" enters into the decision to be disobedient. Instead one should look at the cost and gains of disobedience. What does it cost me to be disobedient? Suppose it cost an eternity in a horrific hell. Is that price going to be worth the benefit of knowing I stood up for my moral principles?

Suppose God is good and commands that we should love everyone. Biill Gates offers me one billion dollars to join the Westboro Baptist Church for a month and wear a sign that says "God hates fags and you should hate them too". If God is still going to send me to Heaven, the cost of disobedience is small, and I would be much more inclined to disobey.

Mindless drones are people who don't go thru cost/benefit analysis regarding their decisions. They are people who allow their emotions to rule them. They are people who make knee jerk claims like they would rather go to hell then follow the Christian God.

Spoken like a true stormtrooper, "I waz just following Herr Hitler's orders". This is no real suprise you have shown multiple times you have no concept of morality or empathy.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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20-09-2013, 04:36 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 04:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't think "how evil" enters into the decision to be disobedient. Instead one should look at the cost and gains of disobedience. What does it cost me to be disobedient? Suppose it cost an eternity in a horrific hell. Is that price going to be worth the benefit of knowing I stood up for my moral principles?

Suppose God is good and commands that we should love everyone. Biill Gates offers me one billion dollars to join the Westboro Baptist Church for a month and wear a sign that says "God hates fags and you should hate them too". If God is still going to send me to Heaven, the cost of disobedience is small, and I would be much more inclined to disobey.

Mindless drones are people who don't go thru cost/benefit analysis regarding their decisions. They are people who allow their emotions to rule them. They are people who make knee jerk claims like they would rather go to hell then follow the Christian God.

Spoken like a true stormtrooper, "I waz just following Herr Hitler's orders". This is no real suprise you have shown multiple times you have no concept of morality or empathy.

I see you're still butthurt over the torture thread.

I have a mind, I use it. I factor morality into the cost/benefit analysis of my decisions. So although I let morality guide my decisions, I am not mindlessly ruled by morality as you apparently are.
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20-09-2013, 04:42 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 04:36 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Spoken like a true stormtrooper, "I waz just following Herr Hitler's orders". This is no real suprise you have shown multiple times you have no concept of morality or empathy.

I see you're still butthurt over the torture thread.

I have a mind, I use it. I factor morality into the cost/benefit analysis of my decisions. So although I let morality guide my decisions, I am not mindlessly ruled by morality as you apparently are.

Yeah I know it's horrible to be such a fascist that I try and make sure my actions cause as little suffering as possible.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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20-09-2013, 04:48 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
God has crappy PR people...and they seem to like come here even though they do such a bad job of representing him.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-09-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 04:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:36 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I see you're still butthurt over the torture thread.

I have a mind, I use it. I factor morality into the cost/benefit analysis of my decisions. So although I let morality guide my decisions, I am not mindlessly ruled by morality as you apparently are.

Yeah I know it's horrible to be such a fascist that I try and make sure my actions cause as little suffering as possible.

Suffering isn't pegged to happiness. You can decrease happiness by minimizing suffering. The way you operate your life is narrow minded. Trying thinking and analyzing situations in order to best navigate them so as to achieve a multitude of goals.
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20-09-2013, 06:18 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 06:14 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yeah I know it's horrible to be such a fascist that I try and make sure my actions cause as little suffering as possible.

Suffering isn't pegged to happiness. You can decrease happiness by minimizing suffering. The way you operate your life is narrow minded. Trying thinking and analyzing situations in order to best navigate them so as to achieve a multitude of goals.

If you are a masochist.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-09-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 04:48 PM)Anjele Wrote:  God has crappy PR people...and they seem to like come here even though they do such a bad job of representing him.

That's the second argumentive error you've made in this thread. First you made a straw man by attacking me on claims I never made. And now you make an ad hominem by attacking me personally instead of my arguments.

You're 0-2.
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20-09-2013, 06:24 PM
RE: If he exists, God is not someone I want to follow
(20-09-2013 06:21 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:48 PM)Anjele Wrote:  God has crappy PR people...and they seem to like come here even though they do such a bad job of representing him.

That's the second argumentive error you've made in this thread. First you made a straw man by attacking me on claims I never made. And now you make an ad hominem by attacking me personally instead of my arguments.

You're 0-2.

The butt it hurting ?
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