If hell exists than heaven cannot.
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24-04-2014, 09:20 PM
If hell exists than heaven cannot.
So we've all heard the logic that if hell exists than heaven cannot.

That if someone you cared for was having their flesh burned from their body, you wouldn't be able to have peace in heaven.

I mentioned this to my catholic brother. He acknowledged the logic of that. Then he said "maybe god erases you from my memory."

My mouth dropped open. That sounds even more callous and even worse! That heaven is a fake acid trip because the reality is that I would still be burning while you enjoy amnesia.

Can anyone think of a way in which both hell and heaven could exist?

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24-04-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
I heard that there's some kind of greater understanding and that makes you not care anymore or something like that. The good old "it's a mystery" bs.

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24-04-2014, 09:35 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
Only as far as brainwashing would be able to take you.

Think about the abusive and strict households where the Bible is held as absolute authority, where god supposedly sits above all, and the father uses his religious beliefs to validate the handing out of extreme physical punishment. All in the name of religious discipline. I've known several, only a couple of the kids who made it out of that kind of repressive hellhole recognized the abuse for what it was. The others who remained true to the faith saw it as deserved punishment, not excessive, but commensurate to the sin or transgression.

Those same people could no doubt sit in a heaven, look down at the agony being wrought upon their brothers and sisters and other loved ones, and see love and kindness in it. People suffering for their transgressions because they need to learn the error of their ways. Their despotic, supposedly loving, god is a shining example of the ultimate abusive parent.

In that way I can see people thinking that heaven could exist alongside hell. Those people scare the shit out of me.

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24-04-2014, 09:38 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
So heaven doesn't exist in Islam then?

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24-04-2014, 09:39 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
According to the Bible, God chooses who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell long before birth.

How they get there is unimportant.

2nd Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

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24-04-2014, 10:04 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(24-04-2014 09:31 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I heard that there's some kind of greater understanding and that makes you not care anymore or something like that. The good old "it's a mystery" bs.

It makes sense, in a way. God's supposed to be up in heaven right now, looking down on all the pain and suffering in this world and completely ignoring it. Perhaps when you arrive he tells you the secret to becoming a complete sociopath.
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24-04-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(24-04-2014 09:20 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  So we've all heard the logic that if hell exists than heaven cannot.

That if someone you cared for was having their flesh burned from their body, you wouldn't be able to have peace in heaven.

I mentioned this to my catholic brother. He acknowledged the logic of that. Then he said "maybe god erases you from my memory."

My mouth dropped open. That sounds even more callous and even worse! That heaven is a fake acid trip because the reality is that I would still be burning while you enjoy amnesia.

Can anyone think of a way in which both hell and heaven could exist?

Sounds like a fun discussion, but I see no way either can exist. Dodgy

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2014, 10:29 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(24-04-2014 09:20 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  So we've all heard the logic that if hell exists than heaven cannot.

That if someone you cared for was having their flesh burned from their body, you wouldn't be able to have peace in heaven.

I mentioned this to my catholic brother. He acknowledged the logic of that. Then he said "maybe god erases you from my memory."

My mouth dropped open. That sounds even more callous and even worse! That heaven is a fake acid trip because the reality is that I would still be burning while you enjoy amnesia.

Can anyone think of a way in which both hell and heaven could exist?

Well then, you can school your "Catholic" brother in Aquinas and Augustine.

Augustine :
“They who shall enter into the joy of the Lord shall know what is going on outside in the outer darkness. The saints' knowledge, which shall be great, shall keep them acquainted with the eternal sufferings of the lost.” --The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 22, "What is Meant by the Good Going Out to See the Punishment of the Wicked" & Book 22, Chapter 30, "Of the Eternal Felicity of the City of God, and of the Perpetual Sabbath"

Thomas Aquinas :
"In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. So that they may be urged the more to praise God, the saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens to the damned. -- Summa Theologica, Part III, Supplement, Question XCIV, "Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned," Article I, "Whether the Blessed in Heaven Will See the Sufferings of the Damned"

2 "Doctors" of his Church cult.

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24-04-2014, 10:48 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
We don't even need them. We have the Bible.

Psalm 2:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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24-04-2014, 11:10 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
This was always one of those things that gave me chills, even as a teen. Cognitive dissonance was pretty heavy here.
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