If hell exists than heaven cannot.
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25-04-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(24-04-2014 09:20 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  I mentioned this to my catholic brother. He acknowledged the logic of that. Then he said "maybe god erases you from my memory."

My mouth dropped open. That sounds even more callous and even worse! That heaven is a fake acid trip because the reality is that I would still be burning while you enjoy amnesia.

That raises another question: if God hits the reset button on your brain or performs a selective memory wipe, then would it still be "you" in heaven or just someone who looks like you?

(25-04-2014 04:11 PM)daylightisabadthing Wrote:  As I understand it, Islam's heaven is within viewing distance of its Hell so the righteous can hear the screams of the damned and that... makes them happy (wtf?).

Yep. Here's a video that illustrates that: along with a little commentary from Sam Harris:

"Read every word of the translation so that you understand what these devout people are weeping over. Their ecstasy is inseparable from the desire to see nonbelievers punished in hellfire. Is this some weird distortion of the true teachings of Islam? No. This is a recitation from the Koran articulating its central message. The video has over 2 million views on YouTube. It was posted by someone who promised his fellow Muslims that they, too, would weep tears of devotion upon seeing it. The reciter is Sheikh Mishary bin Rashid Alafasy of Kuwait. He has as many Twitter followers as Jerry Seinfeld and J.K. Rowling (2 million). In doctrinal terms, this is not the fringe of Islam. It is the center." - See more at: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/islam...yz7pE.dpuf




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25-04-2014, 10:18 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
What's terrifying is that in Islam, the Muslims actually believe they will be sitting on a throne laughing at the people burning in hell. "Religion of peace" my ass.

Religious people try to justify their belief of an existence of hell by saying that even though you're burning in hell with unfathomable pain.... god still loves you!

Proponents of religion usually try to scare you into belief with the notion of hell.
Imagine if that were real for just a second. So wait... This god you believe in wants me to believe in him or else? That's not a choice, it's blackmail. If I liked a girl, and she liked me back by her own choice without me giving her an ultimatum between eternal torture or eternal bliss, then that's real love because she has a choice not to without any fear of being tortured/killed. If I held a gun to her head and say, "your choice to like me but if you choose not to, I will shoot you" that's NOT a choice. How can somebody be loving when they use coercion or by promoting threats to get you to do something?

That's fucked up.

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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26-04-2014, 03:25 AM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(24-04-2014 10:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 09:20 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  So we've all heard the logic that if hell exists than heaven cannot.

That if someone you cared for was having their flesh burned from their body, you wouldn't be able to have peace in heaven.

I mentioned this to my catholic brother. He acknowledged the logic of that. Then he said "maybe god erases you from my memory."

My mouth dropped open. That sounds even more callous and even worse! That heaven is a fake acid trip because the reality is that I would still be burning while you enjoy amnesia.

Can anyone think of a way in which both hell and heaven could exist?

Well then, you can school your "Catholic" brother in Aquinas and Augustine.

Augustine :
“They who shall enter into the joy of the Lord shall know what is going on outside in the outer darkness. The saints' knowledge, which shall be great, shall keep them acquainted with the eternal sufferings of the lost.” --The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 22, "What is Meant by the Good Going Out to See the Punishment of the Wicked" & Book 22, Chapter 30, "Of the Eternal Felicity of the City of God, and of the Perpetual Sabbath"

Thomas Aquinas :
"In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. So that they may be urged the more to praise God, the saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens to the damned. -- Summa Theologica, Part III, Supplement, Question XCIV, "Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned," Article I, "Whether the Blessed in Heaven Will See the Sufferings of the Damned"

2 "Doctors" of his Church cult.

You the man!Bowing
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26-04-2014, 03:33 AM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(25-04-2014 04:14 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(25-04-2014 04:11 PM)daylightisabadthing Wrote:  As I understand it, Islam's heaven is within viewing distance of its Hell so the righteous can hear the screams of the damned and that... makes them happy (wtf?).

Yelp not getting those 72 virgins then. Wouldn't matter, they would just clone me 72 times, or I have to stay with male PC nerds.

You mean you....?

Shit. Come on someone. Some nice girl should "put out' for you.
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28-04-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: If hell exists than heaven cannot.
(25-04-2014 10:19 AM)Plan 9 from OS Wrote:  
(25-04-2014 10:09 AM)Impulse Wrote:  I too came from an RCC background. What you may have been looking for is the mystical body of Christ. The RCC believes that souls on Earth, in purgatory, and in heaven are all of the same body. That goes along with what you are saying about the concepts of family and of marriage no longer existing in heaven. To me, that sounds like everyone blends together into one being and is yet another thing that sounds terrifying to me regarding heaven.

Thanks. I couldn't pull out the idea from my memory banks.

I always wondered why people didn't try harder to understand this. My very Catholic grandmother was married three times. She said it was ok because in heaven she would not be married to any of them. Yet, in the same breath she would say that she would see her first husband again in heaven someday. People tell me I will see my deceased mother again some day in heaven. But nobody tries to reconcile this with the idea that our relationships will no longer exist. Just one more thing that doesn't work for me I guess. :/

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