If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
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29-08-2010, 09:46 PM
If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
After many years of listening to people try to tell me how great god is and the strange ideas about the religion they believe in I have had it. No it is not polite to bring IQ into the conversation but darn it these people have zero thinking skills to challenge themselves and review their beliefs. I will ask a simple question such as, "Do you think Jesus considered topography and cultural bias in selecting the best place on the planet to spread his word?" Or "Considering the devasting effects of diseases related to sequencing or improper coding of DNA would god have not corrected that imperfection so people do not die a horrible death of cancer?" Many people simply state they never thought of that. (Those that do reply with-"sin is passed on to us blah blah blah"-thus problems with cancer-that according to many religious people I know. To be candid all my close friend are atheists and for the most part in the medical proffession. The most common theme is the higher the IQ the better a person has a chance to evaluate religion and see what it really is. What are your thoughts? I used to take all this in stride-but I just cannot understand how people believe all the garbage they are told. Don't get me started on the Pope. Anyone else feel that it is hard to fathom such a large part of the population is religious.
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29-08-2010, 10:24 PM
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
The latest conversion agent my mother sent round my house had an IQ of 132.
And I actually made him take the internet IQ test...

I think ignorance and stupidity are different things. Someone could be as clever as Einstein, but if he's an ignorant fool the intelligence won't help.

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30-08-2010, 05:43 AM
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
Where can I test my IQ? I've already tried a couple of ''free IQ-test'' sites, but when the test is I suddenly would have to pay to get the results... Not like I wouldnt pay a few euros, but theres always some fine print saying ''by using this service you will automatically become a member of club zed (10€/kk, minimum of 6months)'' or somethnig.

I dont think my IQ is high, but IQ isnt everything. Just like Cetaceaphile said.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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30-08-2010, 09:01 AM
 
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
No need to be polite. I understand where you're coming from.

I come from an intelligent and educated family. We're not super geniuses, but we do well at scrabble. Wink The rest of my family is also doggedly religious, and I think there's a good explanation for it. They suffer from "La-la-la" syndrome (where you stick your fingers in your ears and sing la-la-la when you're exposed to ideas that counter your religious beliefs. In many cases this also involves covering your eyes as well.) I feel some compassion for them because I know why they do this: they have been so infused with the fear of going to hell that they cannot even take the risk of igniting unbelief. They are intelligent enough to know they could be convinced by reasonable arguments, and this terrifies them because they believe hell is real.

The fear of hell is truly the scourge of religion, and if we can undo this damage we might be able to unlock the doors of freedom for many of the more reasonable religious. Convincing people that god, if he existed, would be more interested in well-reasoned, skeptical followers than automatons is another challenge.
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30-08-2010, 12:52 PM
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
I actually don't think that it is necessarily a low IQ that is the cause of religiosity in people, but a lack of education. Studies have been done that correlate a low education with religiosity and a higher education with agnosticism/atheism. Many people who are religious don't have any schooling beyond high school, or if they do, it's not exactly a science degree they're pursuing. From what I've heard, religions in the States are trying to do all they can to get evolution out of the high school curriculum. Why? Because education is what fosters unbelief. The only reason there are so many religious people in the world is that they aren't being properly educated. High schools don't exactly teach critical thinking to the students; they teach students facts, which they have to memorise, write tests, and end of story. There are the rare students who are born with critical thinking skills, but most students have to be taught it when they're that age.
I don't know what the high school experience that other students in other countries was/is like, but in my experience, things like biology and physics were optional once we were past grade 10. Of course, all the critical stuff is taught in grades 11-12, so many students completely missed out on that stuff. It's very easy for a student to slip through the education system and not learn anything that will make them question their faith. I am just glad that I have an unquenchable thirst to learn everything I can, but not everybody has that same view.
Oh, and another example of religious institutions trying to interfere with education has become an issue in Alberta. There is a bill that requires teachers to let parents know ahead of time when they are going to be teaching anything related to sex, sex education, or religion. If they don't, the teachers can be fired over this. Parents then have the right to pull their kids out of the classroom when these topics are being discussed. An example: if a History teacher is going to talk about, say, the Crusades, kids can be pulled out. Any travesty that religion has done in history won't be learned by the children of religious parents :/
Lack of proper education is what breeds ignorance and religiosity, because it doesn't matter how big an IQ someone has if they aren't allowed to learn anything.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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30-08-2010, 02:56 PM
 
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
Try snarkiness. It has several advantages.

The percentage of religious people you speak with who actually do have a low IQ won't get the joke. Making fun of stupid people without them knowing is immensely satisfying.

You won't seem to be an angry atheist. I mean, really... being angry isn't going to win you any converts. Neither will snarkiness, but at least you can still feel satisfied that you have asserted your intellectual muscle while at once obliquely putting down lower life forms.

And for the percentage of religious people who can pass an IQ test, well, they will just think you are witty. Or, snarky.

Or, you could just stop arguing with fish. People don't generally believe in god because they are swayed by rational arguments. They believe for more reasons than an unavailability of salient facts. And people don't generally like being called or treated like they are stupid. People love their beliefs. Love them. In fact, they will kill for them.

I find that removing the personal from a discussion of belief generally causes a higher degree of receptivity. And, I do love the look on faces when I say things like "No, I actually don't believe jesus died for our sins. Sorry, but I can't connect the dots between the execution of a criminal two thousand years ago and whether or not I need to be forgiven for looking at dirty pictures."
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30-08-2010, 04:13 PM
 
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
My god.... (or not....)

I have found a forum full of like-minded individuals...

It's like a breath of fresh air.

This thread just convinced me to become a member.

I had a membership to the yahoo! atheist forum, but it was just full of trolls, so I walked away. I started a blog, hoping to find like minded individuals there, but it hasn't worked out so hot either.

I actually stumbled onto this site from americanheathen.com (he runs an atheist and freethinker radio show), and he posted a couple of the vids (morality, and welcome to the world).

So glad I found this site.
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30-08-2010, 04:16 PM
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
Welcome to TTAF!

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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30-08-2010, 04:18 PM
 
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
(30-08-2010 04:16 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Welcome to TTAF!

Thank you!
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30-08-2010, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 30-08-2010 05:58 PM by Dave005.)
RE: If it is ok-I am not going to be polite:)
(30-08-2010 05:43 AM)Kikko Wrote:  Where can I test my IQ? I've already tried a couple of ''free IQ-test'' sites, but when the test is I suddenly would have to pay to get the results... Not like I wouldnt pay a few euros, but theres always some fine print saying ''by using this service you will automatically become a member of club zed (10€/kk, minimum of 6months)'' or somethnig.

I dont think my IQ is high, but IQ isnt everything. Just like Cetaceaphile said.

Let me check that out for you. I have no idea of your age-do not know if that would make a difference. Have a friend who is a counselor-and an atheist.
(30-08-2010 04:13 PM)Soldieringon Wrote:  My god.... (or not....)

I have found a forum full of like-minded individuals...

It's like a breath of fresh air.

This thread just convinced me to become a member.

I had a membership to the yahoo! atheist forum, but it was just full of trolls, so I walked away. I started a blog, hoping to find like minded individuals there, but it hasn't worked out so hot either.

I actually stumbled onto this site from americanheathen.com (he runs an atheist and freethinker radio show), and he posted a couple of the vids (morality, and welcome to the world).

I fully understand-I just joined a couple days ago.

So glad I found this site.

(30-08-2010 09:01 AM)athnostic Wrote:  No need to be polite. I understand where you're coming from.
Sorry-I am using an iPhone and cannot scroll down. Your La-la-la syndrome is used constantly by people-they do not even want to listen to alternative ideas. I find that disturbing for some reason.


I come from an intelligent and educated family. We're not super geniuses, but we do well at scrabble. Wink The rest of my family is also doggedly religious, and I think there's a good explanation for it. They suffer from "La-la-la" syndrome (where you stick your fingers in your ears and sing la-la-la when you're exposed to ideas that counter your religious beliefs. In many cases this also involves covering your eyes as well.) I feel some compassion for them because I know why they do this: they have been so infused with the fear of going to hell that they cannot even take the risk of igniting unbelief. They are intelligent enough to know they could be convinced by reasonable arguments, and this terrifies them because they believe hell is real.

The fear of hell is truly the scourge of religion, and if we can undo this damage we might be able to unlock the doors of freedom for many of the more reasonable religious. Convincing people that god, if he existed, would be more interested in well-reasoned, skeptical followers than automatons is another challenge.
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