If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
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31-10-2017, 08:02 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(30-10-2017 05:56 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  They hate the notion of so called forced to care for the poor. These same folks feel that's how they accept that their view is Christian too

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Yes. Many say, let them eat cake, when they have no cake..

As to Christians, the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians, and there are few of us around thanks to Inquisitions that the other orthodox Christians gifted us with.

The same Christians who follow a genocidal son murdering God.

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DL
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31-10-2017, 08:09 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
I don't think America has to become Castro's Cuba or Stalin's Russia to take care of the poor.

We can have single payer and free college and livable wages for all. But none of what I just typed is calling for the end of the private sector. But we do need to end Reagan's failed trickle down economics, union busting and deregulation.

There actually should be no poverty in America at all considering our GDP. There is an exploding pay gap though and that is hurting us.

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31-10-2017, 08:10 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
Quote:
(30-10-2017 07:39 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(30-10-2017 04:30 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?

Your argument suffers from a faulty premise logical fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise

Thanks for the definition without an argument against whatever false-premise you see.

Labels placing and name calling are for those who cannot form an argument.

Quote:
Quote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pnra8Ke1So

Not caring for the poor killed Rome.

Is Rome II dying?

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DL


I do not think we are dying, but we will never really know until the deed is done. During the space race, we were all losing to the Soviets. During the 70s and 80s we were losing economically to the Japanese. Yet somehow we found after the fact that we were not falling apart. The good thing about the US is we are so damned self critical that we are able to correct for mistakes when we must.

Some of you Yanks might be self-critical, but not so much the right wing as they still back stupid lying Trump.

If the left was also good at self-criticism, they would have recognized that they have moved too far left and no longer speak to or for the right wing thinkers and that is why the right has had a resurgence. Not just in the U.S. but everywhere.

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31-10-2017, 08:12 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(31-10-2017 08:02 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  As to Christians, the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians, and there are few of us around thanks to Inquisitions that the other orthodox Christians gifted us with.

I know plenty of decent Christians -- have some in my family.
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31-10-2017, 08:13 AM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2017 08:22 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(31-10-2017 08:10 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
Quote:Thanks for the definition without an argument against whatever false-premise you see.

Labels placing and name calling are for those who cannot form an argument.

Some of you Yanks might be self-critical, but not so much the right wing as they still back stupid lying Trump.

If the left was also good at self-criticism, they would have recognized that they have moved too far left and no longer speak to or for the right wing thinkers and that is why the right has had a resurgence. Not just in the U.S. but everywhere.

Regards
DL

Eventually when the map turns all red with a couple of blue blobs on either coast they will wake up.
It truly looks like the right works very hard at extending it's base while the left never minds alienating large segments of the population.
How that is a recipe for success baffles me.
No matter what your agenda is the first thing needs to be winning.

The book "The Once and Future Liberal" goes into this.
Mark Lilla



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31-10-2017, 08:18 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(30-10-2017 08:46 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
Quote: If you really cared about people, you would abolish socialism and replace with capitalism. Socialism just does not work.

Most in the West use capitalism. We still have really ugly socioeconomic demographic pyramids and plenty of poor.

Because of that, I would say that it is capitalism that is not working well, not the bits of socialism most Western countries have put into their systems, like a provided and free health care.

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DL
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31-10-2017, 08:24 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(31-10-2017 08:13 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  ...
Eventually when the map turns all red with a couple of blue blobs on either coast they will wake up.
It truly looks like the right works very hard at extending it's base while the left never minds alienating large segments of the population.
How that is a recipe for success baffles me.
No matter what your agenda is the first thing needs to be winning.

The book "The Once and Future Liberal" goes into this.
Mark Lilla
...

Are you equating Liberalism with 'left'?

That's so cute.

Big Grin

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31-10-2017, 08:30 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(30-10-2017 11:23 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(30-10-2017 04:30 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  If socialism is caring for people
It's not, in any way shape or form.

(30-10-2017 04:30 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Not caring for the poor killed Rome.
Lots of things killed Rome, actually Rome had been dying slowly for centuries, but on the list of major causes that's not one I've ever heard of. Care to elaborate?

(30-10-2017 04:30 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Is Rome II dying?
While there are parallels between the US and Rome they have fundamentally different problems at heart. I'm not even convinced the US is even on the decline let alone dying, as there is a host of metrics that are very very positive.

Your poor and those denied a decent minimum wage sure think you are in moral decline.

As to Rome. It could no longer pay enough mercenaries to protect it's borders and territories and thus became a failed state. It also spent too much time and effort in killing those who did not follow Christianity just the right way. Rome used Christianity to try to unite itself but failed. So much for the freedom of religion that Christians denied others in the past yet now demand for themselves.

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DL
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31-10-2017, 08:36 AM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2017 09:23 AM by Greatest I am.)
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(31-10-2017 05:03 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  "Caring for people" or producing the best outcome for the most people can be seen as the whole point of any society.
The issue is how best to do that.
I think there are a lot of things that should be socialized. Health Care for instance.
But it's a balancing act.
There are certain socialist expenditures that can be seen as investment.
A good gardener understands the need to spend time and money fertilizing and tending the garden.
It's a matter of determining what measures are going to produce the best outcome.
In the end I think the best system has some socialist aspects but not to the point that they get in the way of enterprise.

Have a look at our ecology and environment.

Should we get in the way of the enterprises that are slowly killing the environment that you and I will pass to our children and grand children?

How hot and polluted a planet do you think we should pass to them?

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DL
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31-10-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: If socialism is caring for people, should the U.S. Of A. not get more socialist?
(31-10-2017 05:15 AM)Szuchow Wrote:   Socialism in Marxist theory is transitional stage between capitalismĀ andĀ communism distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done. Caring for people is hardly if at all implied by this definition.

As for second Rome dying it depends. Wealth disparity and incarceration rates would speak in favor of it I imagine. Other statistics may be not so dire.

Communism has a flat socio economic demographic pyramid with few tears.

Our demography's are supposed to look more like a standard pyramid.

The U.S. demography, as well as that of most countries, now look more like a top and that is why they are so unstable and shaky.

Only redistribution of wealth can stabilized those economies which is the most profitable way to have things.

Look at the ugliness of what we have now.

http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-amer...ing-fact-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

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DL
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